AJ Philips,

I did say LIKE Thermodynamics 1.
I reason that like MATTER in TD#1, Evolution is immutable regardless of what we do. It will continue, if only because it doesn't work to our time-frame or timetable. The idea that we can stall/delay it is IMHO human arrogance.
As for Intelligent Design (sic) I would argue that there is no evidence of intelligence in nature (existence) merely random actions acted upon by other random actions ad infinitum on an infinite timescale.

ID clearly isn't science (full stop)

Creationism is a human affectation...a need to explain everything, a subset of fight or flight, which in turn is a subset of survival instinct.

Some people appear to be more prone to this need than others give or take conditioning.Given this I find no need to 'bag' the emotional needs of others. Each to their own.

I do however, reason therefore that religiosity having it's hands on education or governmental power is counter productive if not destructive to others humans.

I agree in principal with Hitchins, Dawkings et al but object to their absolutist perspectives....hence I'm a Secular Humanist until convinced otherwise

Examinator,

<<I did say LIKE Thermodynamics 1>>

And I did say “the 1st law of thermodynamics doesn’t apply to [evolution] at all” - it’s nothing like the 1st law of thermodynamics. Not one little bit.

<<The idea that we can stall/delay it is IMHO human arrogance.>>

It now sounds like you're confusing 'mutations' with 'evolution'. It would be arrogant (and just plain stupid) to claim that we could stop mutations, but there's nothing arrogant about admitting that we can defy nature (or Natural Selection), which is the driving force behind evolution.

It’s not like anyone’s claiming to be able to stop gravity, or steamroll over nature like those that built the Titanic.

Nature (or Natural Selection) is the driving force behind evolution. Mutations occur in DNA, some good, some bad, and most neutral. Nature and natural occurrences decide which of those mutations and traits will win out. Take nature out of the equation, by building civilised dwellings and defy disease and injury with drugs and medical procedures and you’ve seriouly hindered the driving force behind evolution.

I really don’t think you understand evolution at all.

nature is not science/..[nature is intel design..[as opposed to random selection..there is no science method in..'natural'..selection

where to next?..Dr. Bruce Lipton,..one of the foremost experts..in the field of epigenetics..and The New Biology, ..xplains that evolution truly works..by means of entities..joining together..to form communities.

Dr. Lipton explains we are surrounded by the proof..that we are poised to take an incredible step forward..in the growth of our species.

“Here we are..on a planet..with 6.5 billion people,..destroying each other..and destroying the planet,..we see ourselves..as single individual/entities....That’s a myth perception.

We’re..not a single..anything...We are a community...of 50 trillion cells..under our skin....

Every cell..has every function..in your body/..in its body...Every cell is a miniature human,..in a sense,..in a large population. So under your skin,..you have 50 trillion citizens.

Each one..has a job,..each..has healthcare,..each..gets nutrition delivered to it,..the garbage is taken out,..and they live in a harmonious society..where,..you represent..yourself..as the entity..but,,,know/..no,..50 trillion cells..are living in bliss and harmony..at the same time.”

He then extends that thought..to society as a whole...If you can live in harmony with 50 trillion cells inside of you,..why can’t a society made of 6.5 billion people..(all made of the same cells),..also figure out a way to live..in peace?
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bruce+lipton+&search_type=&aq=f

Dr. Lipton
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/09/15/These-Four-Beliefs-Defy-Modern-Science.aspx
:..“And they..[your..50 trillion/cells]..live in a society,..and they have rules and regulations,..and they’ve been here..a billion/years before we were here.

..there’s this old statement..that says,..“The answers lie..within.”

And in fact,..from a biological point of view,..if you understood/the dynamics..of how energy is exchanged..in this system,..how the cells have jobs,..and the rules..that hold them together..in this wonderful, cooperative,growing,healthy,loving..community..that you’ll find in a human-body..that’s in health,

if..you look..into that population..and see how they do it,..it’s like,..just take those rules..and apply it to 6.5 billion people,..and this whole world will instantaneously snap into the harmony..that a human body..can have in a healthy situation.”

This leaves lots of potential..for our future on this earth...

the true secret to life does not lie within your DNA,..but rather within the mechanisms of the cell membrane...it is actually the cell’s/membrane..operating in response to environmental signals..picked up by the membrane’s receptors..that control the..“reading”..of the genes..inside/within

Evolution has already taken place, in the form of urgent driving, and road rage. It has now evolved onto the streets as thugery.
Geelong won the grand final in case you never heard.

AJ Philips,
>'I really don’t think you understand evolution at all.'<

Not at all. I think you maybe taking the whole thing a bit too personal.
I use the third person deliberately.

I counter by arguing that Evolution is a process and mutations are ONE of the MANY components that help define that process.
Other components include the base genetic building blocks (which is inherently unstable or else evolution would never have occurred in the first place), environment pressures etc.

Logically until we can ABSOLUTELY CONTROL, prior to the event ALL components and aspects we aren't stalling/stopping the process merely temporarily redirecting it.

We can't control the random mutations or the the conditions that make up The process of Evolution.

As I understand it Genetic mutations occur at a statistically consistent rate. What is not predictable is their specifics, nature (what), directionality or subtlety.

All this is complicated by the complexity of the organism. The more complex logically the more potentiality for mutations.

By altering some genes, changing medical procedures, drugs(temporary effect) we perhaps minusculely alter the process.

There is a common misconception that genes act independently and singularly in all cases. In reality they tend to act in complex networks and in subtle ways.

Add to that the indeterminate time frame of evolution typically several human lifetimes.

To then declare that we HAVE stopped or stalled the all the elements of and therefore the Evolution, is at best, gross exaggeration or at worst Human arrogance.

Examinator,

You do understand that I’m only talking about Human evolution, don’t you? Because that’s what I thought this thread was about.

Of course, there will still be minor changes overall such as people in hotter climates not needing to be so tall and skinny because they have air conditioners, and people in colder climates not needing to be so short and stocky to retain heat.

But other than minor points like that, yes, we’ve pretty much halted evolution as we’ve known it over the last few billion years.

If you think it’s possible that we could eventually become a super race, or another species entirely while still living in such civilised dwellings; being so protected from nature and disease, and having the ability to move all around to world with such ease, then you can argue that one with the scientists.