As for the 225%, how little would you be prepared to accept to do that sort of work?

Yes but you're missing my point.

Why do casuals, doing the same jobs as full timers, get 225% loading?

Does this mean the full timers are under paid?

This is what is known as an entitlement and would have been agreed to by the employer at a particular time.

Good point. So now that demand has dropped, no doubts profits to, why can't the wage drop back as well? Or is it just a 'one way street'?

On one hand you're saying that the workers should be able to sell their labour for what the market can bear yet on the other it appears you object when that is what happens.

Another good point. So can the market still aford these wages, set during 'boom times'?

With Work Choices I could sack half of my staff and get the 5 left to manufacture 4 widgets per day under threat of dismissal, by increasing the number of productive hours per day or offering incentives.

Yes, but if one was a 'good widget maker', they would simply take their widget making skills elsewhere.

I do not know one single person effected by WC!

By the way, I say again, I did not support WC

So belly. Why do unions try to protect unrealistic wages and conditions?
If demand rises and wages rise, that's fine. Isn't it?

Now if demand drops, why can't wages also drop? At least back to where they started + CPI.

And I am not closed minded. I think Krudd is a great bloke. I have no such feelings about his team.

Good to see you back again. Go the broncos!

Casuals get a loading (typically 20%. I think the 225% is a significant exception) over full-time employees to compensate them for -

No holiday pay
No sick or other leave entitlements
Usually no penalty rates or other industrial allowances
No guarantee of continuing work
No long service leave and
No severance pay.

Since the employer bears no financial obligation for this type of staff if he/she decides to sell the business or declares bankruptcy it's a really bit of a bargain. Casuals get turned on and off like a tap whenever they are needed.

I've been forced onto an AWA and don't get several entitlements that are paid to ECA employees doing the same work. There's compensation in other areas but it still falls short of the award, despite all the political assurances that were made when they were introduced.

As for changing circumstances, is it also fair for Corporations to expect to make ever-increasing profits and pay rising executive salaries in bad times as well as good while not increasing payment to their workers? They were all crying poor during those magical boom times and wages went backwards in real terms.

However I agree that there should be room for negotiation in difficult times but it should be genuine and not just a way of boosting existing profits. Unfortunately this would be difficult without a central negotiating party (like a Union) to represent the employees so it's probably back to the Law of the Jungle as far as that's concerned.

For the widget analogy, the other widget manufacturers would be forced to drop their wage rates too, just to remain competitive. In a tight market the workers would be bidding against each other for available jobs.

A view of me this morning would see smoke coming out of both ears.
Well steam really Broncos? good luck on the weekend rechtub I share your love of the greatest sport of all.
Dragons go.
Now back to that steam, seen how banks and big business pay top people top money?
Think they do that to be nice?
225% loading?
Come re read the story, it is not a loading , base wages plus 125% making 225%
of full time wages.
why
they can be finished that day, may work only 3 months of the year get no other pay, are very much needed ,by the boss.
in paying this wage he/she may in fact save money, a full time worker is full time will work full time.
Can any see the blind anti union anti workers theme here?
Facts tell a different story, look deeper into it, them express a view.
much of the rubbish about unions is just plain lies.
rechtub bloke, look at our sport, do you think Broncos should have matched the Dragons offer to our coach?
In an open market is it any of our business what the great man gets paid, market forces not slack management bashed into submission by evil unions controls wages.

No holiday pay
No sick or other leave entitlements
Usually no penalty rates or other industrial allowances
No guarantee of continuing work
No long service leave and
No severance pay.

Yes, all accounted for with the usual 20% loading.

You obviously have little knowledge of what is involved in 'bankruptcy'. A very expensive option if used only to avoid employees entitelments.

In my opinion, casual employment was forced on to employers in the 90's. It is actually cheaper to employ someone as a 'full time' than a casual.

Now if you have been forced onto an AWA and don't like it;

Why did you sign?

Why don't you leave?

Now as for 'big business' and 'huge salaries', you have no argument from me.

However I agree that there should be room for negotiation in difficult times but it should be genuine and not just a way of boosting existing profits.

Most things in day to day life fluxuate. Why not wages?

I have always maintained that wages should be linked to productivity and or profits.

Belly

So why then are these workers given huge loading rather than the usual 20%. You can't tell me that full timers on drilling rigs are on 50K a year, so let's find out what the full time rate is hey!

rechtub bloke, look at our sport, do you think Broncos should have matched the Dragons offer to our coach?
Why is it always about the money.

WB was a vertual 'unknown' untill he came to the broncos. There, he became famous.

He built up a repore with many 'special needs kids' as he to had special needs kids. I will bet these kids have been devistated by having lost him, all because of the money. Something that I doubt he really needed anyway.

In my view, he, like many others, will regret the move.

I would love to see a broncos dragons final, perhaps they could be 'third time lucky', but I doubt it. They will always be good bridesmaids when playing the broncs in a grand final.

Good luck.

I am not going to chase my tail debating you is much like that dog in the dust trying to do the imposable.
If it is cheaper to employ full time workers why do we have so many casuals?
Are bosses stupid?
Last nights results say clearly your team and mine have much work to do.
And I am chuffed at your bad sportsman ship in W,s defection, count the once saints who played for you, none better than Gordy.

If it is cheaper to employ full time workers why do we have so many casuals?
Are bosses stupid?
Good point belly.

Now I can only speak for retail and say that the increase in casual labour has come about mainly due to extended shopping hours and the unpredictible shopping habits of consumers at large.

You see our government (qld) had this grand idea that it would be great for consumers to have more shopping hours to shop.

Problem is, they didn't give them more money to spend while they shop, therefore, the dollars they spend are simply spent over a longer timeframe each day so retailers tend to use casuals as at least they can be sent home if it's quiet.

My shop can fluctuate up to 40% either way just in one or two weeks. Coles, Wollies can be similar.

I only have one casual and I offered him full time but he wanted to stay casual as he couldn't afford the pay drop. Trouble is, he spends the extra he earns so he is on a 'no win' road.

We had to have him sign an agreement just so we can't be hauled over the coals at a latter date.

Now as for being a 'bad sport', tey telling that to the kids that idalised him.

Broncos up, no thanks to the usless ref!

I think the eels may roll your lot to.