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The Forum > General Discussion > Our Godly origins

Our Godly origins

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I agree with Foxy, although I can see the word 'religion' being the sticking point.
For instance, when I read the New Testament, I get a picture of a good bloke; a carpenter who can't post on OLO, but thinks he has a handle on how to make the world a better place. In a society of 'eye for an eye' and revenge/retribution, clearly the only way to break the cycle is to love your enemies.
Or at least, try to forgive them.
Can we blame the alleged Jesus for how his words have been interpreted/misinterpreted by his so called followers?
But Jesus isn't 'The Religion' is he? 'The Religion' I think even a lot of Christians would agree, is a human construction, and as such inevitably involves human flaws.
I recommend the bible as a good read for anyone, along with Confucius, Plato, Aristotle, Terry Pratchett...
Just forget about the Church.
Philo, you are so outgunned I'm seriously tempted to take your side, just to even things up.
...
...
...
No, sorry. I've got nuthin.
Posted by Grim, Wednesday, 19 August 2009 5:45:22 PM
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Grim Thanks!
EXTRACT FROM:
http://www.write101.com/christmas-traditions.htm

Christmas Pudding
Here's another tradition we've pinched from the pagans ... Caught in the middle of a long, cold winter, it's no surprise that people often feared the sun would never return, so they tried to ensure the fertility of their fields and animals by preparing sacred meals. One such was a pudding that was originally made from wheat boiled in milk.

Early Christians adopted this meal to break their fast on Christmas Eve; then it became part of the main feast on Christmas Day and was jazzed up with the addition of eggs, prunes and occasionally meat and was served as a side dish.

Later, the meat was removed and more spices and flavourings were added to make the sweet plum pudding of today.

The coins in the pud have a more macabre background and are leftovers from one of the rituals of the Saturnalia when human sacrifice was called for to ensure the gods would prevent the sun standing still (the meaning of 'solstice').

They decided to leave it up to the gods to choose the sacrificial victim, so a coin was mixed into the pudding and whoever found it was seen as the gods' choice! (And surely that's not why we always hide coins in the children's portions of pudding ...)
Posted by Philo, Wednesday, 19 August 2009 7:32:14 PM
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EXTRACT FROM:
http://www.hohohochristmas.com/The%20HoHoHo%20Factor%20Chapter%204%20-%20Christmas%20Trivia%20-%20Wow%20Everyone%20This%20Christmas%20-%20Sample.pdf

Christmas “Tree of Life” Legend
"There are many legends re the Christmas tree. One story tells of an
English monk who became Saint Boniface. One day he found
himself in front of an oak tree surrounded by pagans who were
preparing to sacrifice a child. Pagans revered oak trees. Saint
Boniface stopped the sacrifice and saved the child with one blow of his fist which flattened the oak tree. A small fir sprang up in its place.
Saint Boniface declared to the pagans that is was the Tree of Life and
represented the life of Christ."

St Boniface emblem is an axe and an Oak tree. This extract does not give the full details but it notes the child sacrifice.
Posted by Philo, Wednesday, 19 August 2009 7:38:54 PM
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Dear Fractelle,

A few things, - firstly it's not religion that creates
a 'them' and 'us' view - it's prejudiced exponents of
religion that does that.

Secondly, - you ask:
Why doesn't Christ's teachings temper the behaviour of
paedophile priests or provide the values of empathy
and compassion to George Pell? Again these people
choose their behaviour - they are accountable for their
own actions - you can't blame religion for the behaviour
of certain people within it.

Thirdly, you've taken my reference to Christian
compassion for the
poor, out of context. Please re-read that paragraph.
I was referring to the basic teachings of Christ's empathy
for the poor and it certainly wasn't meant as a reference to
some sort of 'superiority.' Only as an example that there
were people who chose to practice what Christ taught.
It in no way means that it's superior,
or that you have to be a nun or a priest to work towards
peace, equity or love.

You also wrote that, "One doesn't need religion to be good..."
That goes without saying.
However I disagree with your statement that, "Good people
need religion to do evil." If they use religion to do
evil - then they are not 'good people.' (by anyone's
definition). Again, I repeat - religion should not be
blamed for the acts of individuals supposedly practicing
that religion.

Enjoy your evening.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 19 August 2009 7:43:00 PM
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Foxy,
To your last post I say exactly!

To those people who say "good people need religion to do evil" obviously they fail to be good; because they if good claim that it is religious belief that makes them evil, and so they must therefore be by nature evil.
Posted by Philo, Thursday, 20 August 2009 3:23:21 AM
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Foxy and Philo I refer you to my last post, and urge you to consider the distinction between the (alleged) words of Jesus, and 'Religion'.
I suspect at least some of the problem can be attributed to the simple fact that a lot of people aren't keen readers. I find it easy to imagine many 'good Christians' who aren't keen readers, sitting in Church and listening to the words of the preacher. Instantly, they are dealing with an interpretation, rather than the 'Word'. Next, they may not be totally attentive, and so only pick up on certain keywords, which will of course relate to their personal beliefs, and thereby reinforce them.
This is 'Religion'.
There are an amazing number of websites and churches around the world which promote Christian Prosperity and wealth.
I cannot believe the followers of these cults could possibly have read the New Testament.
Posted by Grim, Thursday, 20 August 2009 7:41:15 AM
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