Grim,
The idea is to chew your food before swallowing. Bet your mum told you that. We kids all enjoyed finding the 'tray' bit in the pudding anyway and it was not until older we found out mum made sure we all got a coin. Even after decimal currency came she kept the 'tray' bits for christmas pudding, its about the coin being silver, and made sure the grandkids got one each. Good memories.

On canabalism, I believe that it was practised in China during the great famine 1958-62. Maybe that famine saw the beginnings of some of the other unusual culinary practises of the Chinese.

The latest event I know of was the survivors of a plane crash in the Andes. Did not the Papuans call human flesh 'long pig'

The claim made in the article is the bones are 800,000 years old and genetic evolution changed this habit to a more civilised society. The fact is the genetics are the same as modern man not some prehistoric link. It is my claim that evolution had nothing to do with the abandonment of this practise, because the practise was carried on in recent times. Conditions drive people to take drastic measures to survive. Living in a cave in ancient times would be an acceptable place to escape to heavy snows of a more recent ice age.

From the German history, http://en.allexperts.com/e/g/ge/germanic_paganism.htm
St Boniface, some of whose emblems are the oak tree and the axe. Information gleaned from Catholic sources during his missionary journeys to the Germanic tribes, he after witnessing their outrageous pagan religious ritual of child sacrifice and gathering around a dormant giant oak to witness its first buds of spring. He decided to take an axe to the tree and cut it down. This created outrage to the locals but from its base grew an evergreen pine and from that he was able to teach God does not sleep during the winter, but is eternally alive. The area was heavily wooded but covered with meters of snow which made food gathering difficult to feed their families in the middle of winter.

Where and why did the horrific story of Hansel and Gretel originate and why is it told to children? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hansel_and_Gretel
The Druids; http://www.bilderberg.org/sacrific.htm

Reports of child ritual sacrifice in Northern India;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4903390.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/mar/05/india.theobserver

Human sacrifice in Canaan:

http://alencon13.blogspot.com/2006/06/human-sacrifice-in-ancient-canaan.html Abram while passing through pagan territory was faced with their practise of child sacrifice and was tempted to sacrifice his own son Isaac but through a revelation from God withheld and took a ram instead Genesis 22: 12 – 14.

Human sacrifice to appease gods: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_paganism

The feminist movement on abortion has links similar to child sacrifice of unwanted children. It has been women that have been attributed with the killing of children in religious rituals.
http://www.forerunner.com/champion/X0039_Child_Sacrifice_in_t.html
(Press Ctrl + click to open links)

Sheesh Philo, you continue to try and make out that the early
Xtians were a civilised and intelligent lot, through those
rosy coloured glasses.

I wonder if you watched tonight's ABC programme "Tony Robinson's
Crime and Punishment" ?

Its sounds like those Xtians in Britain had it all worked out.
They would let god pass judgement, via trial by ordeal or trial
by battle.

If you were unfortunate enough to be accused of a crime, you'd
be forced to hang on to a red hot poker iron and depending on how
fast your wounds healed, god would seemingly decide on your innocence
or guilt.

Trial by battle was easier. You'd fight the other guy and if he
killed you, then you were clearly guilty of your crime!

Perhaps I'll just stick to the secular way after all :)

Yabby,
Where in the teachings of Jesus does he encourage such behaviour. What man will do to each other it does not suprise me but if you claim it is the teachings of Christ then please identify where he taught such.

Dear Philo,

You have just followed the same scenario that I have seen played out many times.

A Christian sings the praises of Christianity as a civilising influence.

A sceptic such as Yabby than points out that secular society has curbed the nasty practices of Christians.

Then the Christian claims that Jesus never advocated such practices.

If Christians behave in a nasty manner what difference does it make whether or not Jesus advocated such behaviour? Yabby's original point that Christianity is not a civilising influence has not been answered.

You can stop ducking and weaving now, Philo, the jig is up.

It is just as I thought.

According to you, St Boniface...

>>after witnessing their outrageous pagan religious ritual of child sacrifice and gathering around a dormant giant oak to witness its first buds of spring. He decided to take an axe to the tree and cut it down<<

Forgive my cynicism, but I think you just made that up.

Here is the "authorized version".

http://www.eldrbarry.net/mous/saint/bonfmain.htm

Not one of the sources you provide mentions St Boniface, by the way.

Not one of the sources you provide mentions child sacrifice.

>>Where and why did the horrific story of Hansel and Gretel originate and why is it told to children?<<

According to the reference that you yourself provided, "[m]any critics have posited that the tale likely stemmed from historical instances of abandonment caused by famine."

Not one of your references mentions the random selection of the victim.

Not one of your references even gets close to mentioning puddings, let alone Christmas puddings with coins inside.

I think it might be time to confess that you simply passed on an apocryphal story, that you couldn't be bothered to check, simply because it added a frisson of glamour and intrigue to Christmas pud.

Once more, to be absolutely clear, this statement of yours is utter nonsense.

>>pagan European practises of them inserting a coin into the pudding fed to the children during winter solace to identify the chosen child to be sacrificed to the god of fertility and new life<<

You do know how to say "I was wrong", don't you?

Go on, give it a try. It will do you good.