I suggest we return to the topic.
For original writing on human sacrifice in Europe read the letters of Boniface.

Boniface faced a divided and sometimes heathenized church and pagan religions, including Bortharians who worshiped Thor, the god of thunder. There was idol worship, fortune-telling, sorcery, and even human sacrifice among the pagans (Letters XX, XXIX, XXXIII).

I guess you have to get marks for persistence, Philo.

But once again 0/10 for accuracy, I'm afraid.

Not to mention a big black mark for plagiarism.

You simply copied your “evidence”, word-for-word, from blog-by-the-sea, didn't you?

http://blog-by-the-sea.typepad.com/blog_bythesea/2006/06/about_st_bonifa.html

“Boniface faced a divided and sometimes heathenized church and pagan religions, including Bortharians who worshiped Thor, the god of thunder. There was idol worship, fortune-telling, sorcery, and even human sacrifice among the pagans (Letters XX, XXIX, XXXIII)”

Verbatim.

That's quite naughty, you know. Even in the freewheelin' world of the interwebs.

And it's not even real evidence. Let's look at the source material for a moment.

http://elfinspell.com/Boniface1.html#Boniface

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/boniface-letters.html

I'll even throw in Willibald

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/willibald-boniface.html

This latter was written shortly after Boniface's death, and records – for the very first time – that old chestnut (sorry!), about Boniface and the Gaesmere oak.

Note, there is no mention of human sacrifice, let alone any mention of children being sacrificed. You would be forgiven for thinking that a scribe, who had zealously collected the information from Boniface's disciples, would have been extremely remiss, if he were to suppress a story of such significance.

I'd certainly take his word over that of "The HoHoHo Factor!"

Wouldn't you?

You suggest that “we return to the topic.”

Let's do that.

>>That humans sacrificed their children existed in Europe till at least 600 AD when Christianity changed that evil practise... Christianity transformed pagan European practises of them inserting a coin into the pudding fed to the children during winter solace to identify the chosen child to be sacrificed to the god of fertility and new life. Vestage of this practise remains today in the coin in the Christmas pudding and is supposed to mean a blessing to the child now spared from sacrifice.<<

On sober reflection, that was rubbish, wot you wrote.

Wasn't it?

Foxy & Philo

I echo Davidf's point:

<< However, the process by which evil is denied in religion is a simple one. Religion is good. Therefore when evil stems from religion it must not be real religion. I don’t buy it. >>

I don't buy it either, because this twisted little argument is used time and time again to denigrate anyone who does not follow religious dogma - in your case, Christianity.

Nor are these arguments any more "off topic" than Philo posting an edited portion of the "history of human sacrifice in Europe".

I don't expect any more from Philo - his self evident superiority for being a Christian rivals Peter Sellick's, but Foxy I am very hurt that you believe the same. Follow the good you can find in your bible, but remember there are many other worthy books and philosophies available from which to consider the human condition.

Besides if you really believe that religion makes no difference to people behaving for ill, then why bother at all? Obviously formal religion doesn't work, is a waste of time and our taxes.

Why not just behave with respect to people instead of this:

"I am a Christian, therefore holier than thou."

My assumption is that the writers of the OT wrote an allegorical story the same vein of similar religions of the period: In short creation and flood stories. I would have thought that lawlessness has been with us before and after Jesus’ life.

My observation is that believers “indwell” (Polanyi) in religious performance and have their beliefs reinforced by reference groups, which give a feeling of belonging and being right. In assessing facts we tend to search out convergence of ideas on a construct and show that the construct is distinct and can be discriminated from other (belief) constructs. [Something Philo said was nonsense, when I raised it earlier.]

Three people believing in Yahweh (only), the Christian trinity and Apollo respectively, each will by association and conditioning establish their own world views.

Agree that there have been human sacrifices and cannibalism thoughout the ages.

Siege cannibalism practised by the Christians between the eleventh and fourteen centuries was matched by similar behaviours in Central Africa and some Island States. The Aztecs and Incas practised sacrifices,as you would know.

The Judeo-Christians before the Nicaean Christians, practised what some modern historians call “volunteering”. They would try to have the Romans arrest and sacrifice them, so they could become martyrs and be assured of a place in paradise (but no seven virgins).

It is reported that when one Christian pleaded with a Roman governor to be killed, the Roman replied to the effect, “no, go away, don’t you have any cliffs around here?”.

Pope Innocent VIII had three young boys sacrificed to provide him with blood transfusions before he died (1492).

It is not that Hitler and many NAZIs were not Christian-like, they were not Jesus-like in their behaviour. Christianity has a black history. Alertnatively, Jesus didn't act like historical Christians.

Hello Grim,

I must study Thomas. I believe it is an early text and less subject to the Chinese Whispers of Oral Lore. It is good that Clark Kent was better behaved in Smallville than the Jesus of Thomas, lest FBI would have a serial murderer wuth superpowers on its hands :-).

Just for the record - I do not have a "Holier than
Thou" attitude as far as religion goes. Quite the opposite
- I'm still
searching and learning - I have never thought that my
personal beliefs were in any way superior. And I have
never had a 'missionary complex' of wishing to convert
anybody. I have always respected other people's
beliefs - and my attitude has always been - to
each his own - and whatever gets you through the night.

To me -
The world has become man-centered, meaning-centered and
the individual measures the traditional truths in terms of
personal value. But that does not mean to infer that my
beliefs are in anyway superior or that someone else's are
inferior.

Dear David f,

You forgot to mention while citing the "religious
atrocities," that they were all committed by
fundamentalists (extremists) be they -
Christian, Jewish, Muslim Extremists, Buddhist,
or Hindus - the fact remains the majority of
people who practice those religions do not commit
the acts you described. And, as history has shown
fundamentalists use religion as a vehicle to achieve
their own ends.

A historian can establish
that an act took place on a certain day, but this,
by historical standards, constitutes only chronology
or 'factology.' The moment the historian begins to
look critically at motivation, circumstances, context,
or any other such considerations, it of course becomes
unacceptable for one or another camp of readers.

People are often reluctant to modify their judgements -
which often leads to the questionable practice of
stereotyping and counter-stereotyping. Religion is good,
religion is bad, that of course excludes the ones that
don't claim any affiliation with any religion - who do
good and bad. The question of what is good and what
is bad is interpreted by those upon whom the good or the
bad is done. A fundamentalist killing people - is
convinced he's doing "good," in the interests of his own
group.