Philo

This is one of those rare occasions where I agree with Yabby. Tony Robinson's "Crime and Punishment" should be required viewing for fundamentalist christians like yourself.

No, Jesus did not preach "trial by ordeal" but since when has the formal religion of Christianity ever followed Jesus' teaching? Your dodging and weaving is a parody of the avoidance taken by Church leaders on the issue of paedophilia.

Since the time of Constantine, Christianity has been nothing much more than a tool for power and politics.

Why can't you just be a caring human being without all the religious baggage?

It's easy. And you don't need to read a book, where you have to completely ignore the nasty bits (like a vengeful god) or apply doublethink to your brain. You just treat other people as you would like to be treated yourself. Its not rocket science.

Marx's view of religion as the 'opium of the
people,' perhaps was too narrow a view as
religion can be involved in social conflict
in other ways as well as including ways that
challenge the status quo.

This is because societies that are hostile
to one another often use religion as an
idealogical weapon emphasizing differences
in faith in order to justify conflict.

Wars fought on religious grounds are often marked
by extreme bloodiness and fanaticism, but religious
differences are not necessarily the causes of the wars,
even though the participants themselves may think they are.

The medieval Crusades, at first sight may appear to have
been a purely religious conflict in which European
Christians were trying to recover the Holy Land from Muslims.
A closer analysis suggests an additional reason. The
European nobility launched the Crusades partly to gain
control of the trade routes to the East and partly to
divert widespread unrest among their peasantry.

Similarly, the conflict between Jews and Muslims in the
Middle East may seem to arise from religious differences,
but the tension is really over competing claims by two
different ethnic groups, the Israelis and the Palestinians,
for the same homeland. In much the same way, the conflict
in Northern Ireland seemed on the surface to be one
between Catholics and Protestants, but its roots lie much
deeper in ethnic and class divisions between Irish of
native descent and those descended from British settlers.

Sometimes a group may actually be inspired by religion to
challenge the existing order. In many of the highly unequal
and impoverished societies of Central and South America,
for example, the Catholic Church has long been associated
with the military, social, and economic elite. Yet in recent
years, a minority of priests and nuns have embraced
"liberation theology," which blends Christian compassion
for the poor with explicit commitment to political change
through class struggle.

The basic tenet of Christianity after all is - "that you
love one another as I have loved you." Religion can't
be blamed for the actions of what people do or don't do.

Foxy

<< Religion can't be blamed for the actions of what people do or don't do. >>

Disagree completely.

Religion creates an "us" and "them" world view, for example on OLO Peter Sellick's view of non-Christians lacking humanity and imagination.

If being a follower of Christ is so positive, why don't His teachings temper the behaviour of paedophile priests?

or

Provide the values of empathy and compassion to George Pell?

Also you referred to "Christian Compassion" does that mean my compassion for others is different? Inferior? Please explain the difference between Christian compassion and human compassion.

One doesn't have to be a nun, religious or even Christian to work towards peace, equity or love.

But what you are saying, Foxy, is "don't blame the religion (Christianity) blame the individual". I am sure that sufferers from religious persecution the world over will understand. Whether religion is used as a tool for power or whether some people find succour in the idea of a supreme being, is irrelevant.

To paraphrase: one doesn't need religion to do good, but good people need religion to do evil.

The Crusades were more a device to divert widespread unrest among the nobility than among peasantry. The system of primogeniture left all but the oldest son landless and equipped for nothing except making war.

The conflict in Israel/Palestine is not between two ethnic groups. DNA testing has shown that the Israelis and Palestinians have a shared ancestry. They are the same ethnic group separated by religion. The separate claims for the same territory are due to religious differences. The linguistic and cultural differences are subsidiary.

It is the same in the former Yugoslavia. At one time they were almost all Orthodox Christians. After the Islamic conquest of the Balkans most of the upper class became Muslims. When part of the territory was conquered by the Austro-Hungarian Empire some became Catholic. Serbs and Croats speak the same language but use different alphabets.

The Irish descended from British settlers are almost all Scots. Like the Catholic Irish they are Celts. Before Christianity there was little to differentiate them. They have a common heritage and separate religions.

Although religious differences are not necessarily the causes of wars, they sometimes are, and they exacerbate the hatred of the Other even when they are not the cause.

farcical..<<Religion creates an "us" and "them" world view,..Peter Sellick's view of non-Christians lacking humanity and imagination.>>.IM CASTING STONES NOW...one olo poster..means were all black...RIGHT?...whho is your us>factiler

<<If being a follower of Christ is so positive,..why don't His teachings temper the behaviour of paedophile priests?>>>..define an olo POSTER...some..are not like..all of you...WE ARE/not all the same...yet..we can all claim to be posters...

some get it..some dont get that..any claimining belief..only to acces the sheep,lied about their be;lief..[it dont mean jesus is wrong only that liars lie/fools/fool/posters post

<<Please explain the difference between Christian compassion and human compassion>>a christian helps you either because thats what christ would do or to know god better by serving thy neighbour...by works

human compassion..is when we feel sorry for all them starving kids..then watch dancing with the stars..[footy/cricket/tennis..[or bigest looser].

<<One doesn't have to...to work towards peace, equity or love..>>they live their walk....those who dont talk the talk

<<..I am sure that sufferers..from religious persecution the world over will understand...>>>im sure they dont....lol..see brto the same global order issues all the oprders...controles all religions..controles banks/law/finance.movie/media/factories...people..dictators...you name it

just the idiots havnt woken up to the wizard bnehiond the curtain

YES<<<..Whether religion is used as a tool for power or whether some people find succour in the idea of a supreme being,is >>COMPLETLY relevant....someone is teaching them...to have faith in scienc/faith in god/faith in govt/faith in law...faith in each other///its all about selling us...on...what we must/think

<<To paraphrase:.....>>..wrongly

<<one doesn't need religion to do good,
but good people need religion to do evil>>>.
...doing eviil is as simply as doing nothing
talk is cheap

Dear Oliver,
My first comment was to Yabby when I asked what he meant by Gods image. I still await his answer. My comment to you was about sin and lawlessness which didn't come in after Jesus paid the price for your sin and mine but when Adam chose to follow his wife instead of following God. We chose to follow who we trust. So if I tell you that I know all would you believe or would you check it out for your self. In my life time I have found most talk is about self propigation not truth for we are all capable of mistakes. The only source about who is God is found in his word and it is not easy to understand at a casual read as most experts on OLO seem to believe it is not worthy of a second glance. Baby sacrefices have been around
long before Jesus and are still going on to this present day.
My bible tells me that if the spirit of Jesus the Holy Spirit doesn't live in you you are not a christian at all but many on OLO would have us believe that mass murderers like the Nazi's are christian and it does not fit the discription.