*BUT THIS CHEMISTRY IS ADVANCED almost fully controled from human beings!*

You miss my point and open a can of worms here Antonious, but I shall
try and explain it to you. Lets say Fractelle has a bout of
depression. Brain chemistry at work. Her friends ask her to go skydiving or whatever. Do you think that how she feels at that time
does not influence her decision? Of course it does.

Another example, which is common. The stronger an emotion, the less
we reason. Mr C has an argument with his partner, she responds,
he responds, anger becomes rage, they are yelling at each other,
nobody is thinking clearly now, she throws a frying pan at him,
he sees the gun in the corner and shoots her. Its very common
in America, where 100'000 are shot a year, a great many for this
very reason.

Once again, forget your strawman arguments and focus on my
claim: Ligands, which includes hormones, peptides and neurostransmitters, all influence any decision which we claim to
make by so called "free will".

Candace Pert wrote an interesting book called "Molecules of emotion",
which explains some of the science behind what I am saying.

Now the debate about how free our so called "free-will" actually is,
is still hotly debated in science. Susan Greenfield, another great
reasearcher in the field, has done some interesting experiments on
this, which she even demonstrated for the public. Interestingly
the sub concious areas of the mind were active and making decisions
a long time before the concious areas came to the same conclusion
at a later time.

So its not all as black and white as you claim, but still open
to very vigorous discussion, by people who know far more about this
field then you or I do.

Moondoggy, thats a cute Nick!

A Song About Fractelle.

"I Am Mine"

The selfish, they're all standing in line
Faithing and hoping to buy themselves time
Me, I figure as each breath goes by
I only own my mind

The North is to South what the clock is to time
There's east and there's west and there's everywhere life
I know I was born and I know that I'll die
The in between is mine
I am mine

And the feeling, it gets left behind
All the innocence lost at one time
Significant, behind the eyes
There's no need to hide
We're safe tonight

The ocean is full 'cause everyone's crying
The full moon is looking for friends at hightide
The sorrow grows bigger when the sorrow's denied
I only know my mind
I am mine

And the meaning, it gets left behind
All the innocents lost at one time
Significant, behind the eyes
There's no need to hide
We're safe tonight

And the feelings that get left behind
All the innocents broken with lies
Significance, between the lines
(We may need to hide)

And the meanings that get left behind
All the innocents lost at one time
We're all different behind the eyes
There's no need to hide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgkkvtVuBDE

The Pied Piper, Fractelle
Lady, you have one from the best characters I met in my life.
Be proud for your self and always you will be a friend of me!
You have right about Fractelle she is very sensitive woman and her posts do not represent the best part of her self. She is many times better from her posts. My relations with Fractelle was not very good because she was little bit agresive, I knew she was hurt and she felt (feel) more depresed than me! For me all this years Australia was a big, a huge....prison! I was in the middle of the desert going to nowhere as I forgot to...dream!
I do not know why she stacked(stick) in her past, why she continues to think and speak for her former husband.
I do not understand why a strong character like Fractelle did not cut her ties from a bad past.. Who cares if he was good or bad, care for your future, for your happines, for your self BUT ....never abandon your human, social, democratic or global sensitivities.
Fractelle, you are a progresive person HOW WE CAN CHANGE THE WORLD WHEN WE CAN NOT CHANGE OUR SELF IN A SO SIMPLE AND BASIC THING?
I had real problems in Australia, the discrimination in my workplace, the children, blocked banks of cause my children, low income , sold properties etc. When my children grew up enouph I did not allow my ex wife to speak to me on the phone, simple I connected her direct to children, (she has lived overseas).
We have two ways to change our world one is the love for it and the other is the hate for it but the hate most times is cover even from our self, be carefull with it, because I find my self moving in dark areas and I scared very much!
The Pied Piper, Fractelle IGNORE ME! I have lost in the middle of the desert, pray for me!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelade

I lost on the way to ITHACA! Flowers, storms and internal emptyness drive me to nowhere.

Ithaca
As you set out for Ithaca
hope your road is a long one,
full of adventure, full of discovery.
Laistrygonians, Cyclops,
angry Poseidon - don't be afraid of them:
you' ll never find things like that on your way
as long as you keep your thoughts raised high,
as long as a rare excitement
stirs your spirit and your body.
Laistrygonians, Cyclops,
wild Poseidon - you won't encounter them
unless you bring them along inside your soul,
unless your soul sets them up in front of you.

Hope your road is a long one.
May there be many summer mornings when,
with what pleasure, what joy,
you enter harbours you're seeing for the first time;
may you stop at Phoenician trading stations
to buy fine things,
mother of pearl and coral, amber and ebony,
sensual perfume of every kind -
as many sensual perfumes as you can;
and may you visit many Egyptian cities
to learn and go on learning from their scholars.

Keep Ithaca always in your mind.
Arriving there is what you're destined for.
But don't hurry the journey at all.
Better if it lasts for years,
so you're old by the time you reach the island,
wealthy with all you've gained on the way,
not expecting Ithaca to make you rich.

Ithaca gave you the marvelous journey.
Without her you wouldn't have set out.
She has nothing left to give you now.
And if you find her poor, Ithaca won't have fooled you.
Wise as you will have become, so full of experience,
you'll have understood by then what these Ithakas mean.

K.Kavafis

AnSymeonakis & Pied Piper

Between the two of you I have been left speechless (very rare) by your compassion and thoughtfulness.

Yes, going through bad patch at the moment, which tends to leave one in the past rather than focussing on the now. Hell, I even took a swipe at Foxy on another thread for which I feel very ashamed. I really appreciate your words to me. And, yes, you have helped.

Yabbs - if someone offered to take me sky-diving right now, I would go - I love a good adrenalin rush and would take up offer irrespective of my mood. Nyah Nyah.

Yabby,

Hormones seem to drive certain impulses and urges, but they in turn are governed by cognitive capacity, which is informed by values and beliefs and other accumulated knowledge - including planning and being able to weigh the consequences of one's decisions and actions.

For example, many people with impaired cognitive functioning display quite disinhibited behaviour - it takes longer to absorb social expectations and automatically behave accordingly.

Another example: a bloke who is desperate for sex weighs up the consequences of leaping on someone in front of a police station versus picking up a one night stand versus visiting a brothel versus whatever other solutions are available to him.

People at the height of anger mid argument, can be interrupted by the doorbell and if there is a copper standing there, they are much less likely to continue to assault their annoying partner.

“If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of
atoms in my brain, I have no reason for supposing that my beliefs
are true. They may be sound chemically, but that does not make
them sound logically. And hence I have no reason for supposing my
brain is composed of atoms.”
J.B.S. Haldane, Possible Worlds (1927)