OUG...So GOD placed SATAN in the world as a teaching aid…well I am sure all those who have been victims of evil will be thrilled with your GOD for that!

WHY are you convincing people that your GOD is so dumb?

You may need evil to know GOOD…WOW…Most people know GOOD because they actually feel GOOD when they experience or do GOOD.

I hope there is evil in heaven just so you believers know how to recognize how GOOD heaven is...lol How can one so well read be so foolish?

NO! GOD created ALL things…including SATAN and evil according to believers OR GOD created only some things or nothing. You as a believer can't say Humans created evil.

Are you making this rubbish up as you go?

OUG...6 million die so Anne Frank and Schindler can shine..If that wasn’t such a disturbed thought it would be laughable! You have just lost all credibility!

Did Stalin kill 20million so Solzenitzen could write his book?

You are so busy making excuses for your GOD that you are actually stating he allows things for the craziest of reasons.

Back to the books old Fella!

Just to educate you...the proof that GOD didn't intercede in the holocaust is the 6 million people who were murdered. GOD is a failure!

The proof GOD didn't intercede against Stalin is the 20 million dead. GOD is a failure!

If GOD didn't intercede, GOD didn't answer the prayers. He failed his own system...your GOD cannot be GOD...he/she/it is a false GOD! A mistake in the inner confusions of your mind!

Once again you are saying the most incredibly unGodly things about your alleged GOD. If there is a judgment day, and if there is a GOD, he will be shaking his head in utter disbelief as he assesses you.

You are not a good salesperson for a GOD!

<<GOD placed SATAN...lol../teaching aid>>.you love making your re-statments...satan..written into the texts..as an embodyment..of evil

<<GOD..so dumb..>>..is your distortion

<<need evil to know GOOD>>..you ask questions..[without a question i wouldnt be posting....

explaining concepts/..needs a framework/context...that deliniates extreems...thus we have invaded[invader]...good/vile...black/white...hot/cold/light/dark..as egsamples/oppisites..that expand..understanding of concepts


<<..there is evil/..in heaven>>...there isnt..[vile is in hell...as you..might seek to confirm...lol


<<You/..can't say Humans created evil..>>>you as an intelligent man...know its you..chosing to be devils advocate/..satans not making you reply...realise your teasing..is coming from your..freechoice

<<you making this rubbish up?>>...no..im following...lol..a script...just like you...lol

<<6 million die..so/Schindler can shine..>>was there no insanity..there would be no measure..where sanity prevails...if some..would not have had..the choice..of rejecting the insanity...there would be no lesson/..no story

<<Stalin kill 20million>>>..why is it so hard..for you to say../xtians[CHRISTians]..each death ...required some fool..to do nothing...but no doudt some said..this is wrong...

it wasnt stalin/hitler that killed anyone...its just conveniant to blame them...like satan..[what of the jewish-bankers..that paid for it all..[who recieved../the loot and plunder?

<<You are../making excuses for your GOD>>>..god needs/..no man...it is we..who need god...if you sought to know him..you would realise your insulting..the one..who loved you more than any..'other'..ever has/will

<<you/stating he allows/..for the craziest/reasons>>..i reply...your questions...to answer../your absurdities...in the end..its between god/you.

<<GOD is a failure!>>..an ignorant thing/..to say...you have the wrong idea..of god...insulting..the one/good/true...god..who only seeks..to give you life/and love

<<If GOD didn't intercede>>>..you/we..would be no more than..dust/wet clay,

<<GOD didn't answer..YOUR..prayers.>>...thus you claim..<<..He failed his/system>>...but the reality is..he failed YOUR system

<<your GOD..cannot be GOD>>>...he is not..'my/god..[but..'our'..god]...he loves us all..equally

<<you are saying..the most/incredibly..unGodly..things..about..our..alleged GOD.>>>..lol...im saying un-godly things...wow suprise suprise ...only god..can say..'godly'/things...

we can but try[to love..as much as god does],...but only gods/love..is gods love

<<If..there is a judgment-day,>>>there isnt...you got the wrong god[jesus mission..was primary to rebuild...'his temple''..in three days..proving...there's..no smouldering in graves..till a mythical judgement day...get it...?

<<as he assesses you.>>...he loves..love dont judge/asses

<<You are not a good salesperson for a GOD!>>....god dont need selling/..your not bying/..im only replying

ok the topic looks egsausted...so will leave a few unrefutable proofs
http://www.geocities.com/athens/aegean/8830/mathproofcreat.html

and a general quote/hint..Proof of God is in Nature/reflecting our creator

So where's the proof of God's existence?...the proof of God is all around us!

Through the microscope,we observe..The bacterial flagellum..is what propels E.,coli bacteria..through its microscopic world.

It consists of about 40 individual protein parts including a stator, rotor,drive-shaft, U-joint,and propeller...It's like..a microscopic outboard motor!

The individual parts..come into focus when magnified..50,000 times (using electron micrographs)...And even though these microscopic outboard motors run..at an incredible 100,000 rpm,..they can stop on a microscopic dime...It takes only a quarter turn for them to stop,..shift directions and start spinning 100,000 rpm in the opposite direction!

The flagellar..'motor'..has two gears..(forward and reverse),..is water-cooled,..and is hardwired..into a signal transduction..(sensory mechanism)..so that it receives feedback..from its environment. ("Unlocking the Mystery of Life," video documentary by Illustra Media, 2002.)

When we apply the general principles of detecting specified complexity to biologic systems..(living creatures),..we find it reasonable...to infer the presence intelligent design.

Take,..for example,the bacterial flagellum's..stator,rotor,drive-shaft,U-joint,and propeller...It is not convenient..that we've given these parts these names...that's truly their function.

If you were to find a stator,..rotor,..drive-shaft,..U-joint,..or propeller in any vehicle,/machine,/toy or model,..you would recognize them as the product..of an intelligent source.

No one would expect an outboard motor..much less one as incredible as the flagellar motor..to be the product of a chance assemblage of parts....Motors are the product of intelligent design.

Furthermore,..the E. coli bacterial flagellum simply could not have evolved gradually over time...The bacterial flagellum is an.."irreducibly complex"...system.

An irreducibly complex system is one composed of multiple parts,..all of which are necessary for the system to function.

If you remove any one part,..the entire system will fail to function.

Every individual part is integral...There is absolutely no naturalistic,gradual,evolutionary explanation for the bacterial flagellum...(Michael Behe,/Darwin's Black Box,1996.)

Proof of God - His Fingerprints are Everywhere!

If we're willing to open our eyes,we'll see the fingerprints of God all around us and all throughout us...Our very existence proves the existence of a Creator God

OUG,

Several posts back you stated that complexity into today’s universe exceeds the complexity of God. That God is less complex than our universe. The early Earth being a simple garden, you said. Such a position on the surface at least begs, the universe starting off simple and becoming more complex over time.

The Intelligent Design movement in the US once used the “eye” as an example of “irreducible complexity”, until such time that Science explained it. The ID folk have since moved onto the “bacterial flagellum” because of its complexity (far from a simple garden). According to Paul Davies, the basic processes are already known. More involved processes will likely be explained and the ID folk will need to find a new citation. Against this background, we find that Science has explained much, yet Science cannot explain everything - today. We have only had civilization for six thousand years and true science for three hundred years. Not long given the hundreds of thousands of years of age of our genus. Science is a work in process and always will be, I suspect.

With complex organisms of times the organisim is reducible to components. DNA assembles these components. Squids, humans, birds and snakes have eyes, but none have can hear in 3-D (suspected of dolphins). Yet, bats have acute sonar too. Trucks, cars and planes have simply parts but planes fly.

Moreover, there are design flaws in nature. The human back, for one. Cecidomyian gall midges (flies) sometimes reproduce via parthenogenesis (Gould). When the lavae grow to adulthood “inside” the mother, they by eat the mother from the inside out! This does not seem to me to be a well-engineered design by a loving God.

If God is loving and makes mistakes, then, it not omnipotent and, should called a Creator, perhaps, but God, a term more than a little shacky here. If God is omnipotent and deliberately designed the cruelty in the insect world and tolerates Satan and evil, over millennia, might be all powerful God, is God, but not moral.

TYPO ABOVE: Trucks, cars and planes have SIMILAR parts but only planes fly.

The same solution is often found to work in different species towards different aggregated effects.

oliver<<..the basic processes are already known>>.a link..for context perhaps?

<<Against this background,..Science has explained much,..yet Science cannot explain everything..today.>>..thats fine...im fine with them simply making one like it...

then letting..it..self assemble/pro-create..and evolve...

one egsample..being worth a thousand theories/words

<<true..science for three hundred years.>>.dont underestimate the heroes/science's of rome/greece..messapotanoa/babbelon...i say science preceeds the pharoes...minimum

<<Science..is a work in process>>..totally agree...its more...we got it[scientific/curiosity]..from god...but..here are those who..with closed minds..conclude..incorectly..the science is in...

when its..definitivly..not even close

<<DNA assembles these components>>.sorry to rebut...butt..its been foun[simple genes=cause/affect]...is not..how it works...timming is absolutly essential...having..this given gene active..at the wrong time..=..nothing

<<have..eyes,..but none..can hear in 3-D..>>lol..if you mean three dimentions..bifocular vision/hearing are both hearing/seeing in 3 d

<<bats have acute sonar>>..thus..'see'/sense..in bi-focular/..3d..too.

other/automotions..<<have simply parts..but planes fly>>...in 3d..?.

<<there are design flaws/in nature>>>..but these arnt fatal flaws...mainly because of the double helix...clever thinking from god..eh?

<<..Cecidomyian gall midges../When the lavae grow to adulthood..“inside”..the mother,..eat the mother>>..as science reveals..its about passing the genes...

it..only confirms how clever god is..to use it for spirits to quickly live to motherhood...then get to their next spiritual/..progression...

being a moth-er..been there done that..lol...now..be..an earthworm[ie..be father and mother]...lol...it seems like god exploring..all possabilities..[to.../for..us to discover..her evolving/path to perfection..]

God is loving..<<and makes mistakes>>...it is not for/us to make an isue about it...let ye without sin..not cast stones..be ye perfect/..as god is perfect

<<If..God is omnipotent/and..deliberately/designed the cruelty>>..the cruely is incidental...god could hide..her path to godlyness...but leaves it for us..to realise...that we..who/know her true progression into perfection...was/may have been..as flawed as we are...

but now..being perfect...allows us to achieve/..our own perfection...knowing..even the perfect...may not..have been..all that/perfect...

but lets give her..the same grace she gives us...let her have some secrets..from us..her kids/..spawn