The following statements could both be true.

-Religions are false

-God exists

At least as far as the big two religions, Christianity and Islam are concerned, I think the first statement is manifestly true. How anyone can seriously believe either the Bible or the koran is the "word of God" escapes me.

I consider the second statement to be undecidable. We shall probably never know. If God exists he / she / it / they is probably nothing like the being described in any human "holy book".

But we do have a conundrum for which there is at present no solution. The probability seems vanishingly small that, by chance alone, a universe can come into being in which the laws of physics are such that chemically based life forms can emerge and evolve. It is smaller than say a single person winning the lottery every week for a year.

The following explanations have been proffered:

-If we understood physics better we would see a life-friendly universe is the only one that could exist. This still leaves unanswered the question of why the laws of physics should be "life-friendly".

-We just got lucky. Maybe but improbable

-An intelligent universe designer, call him "God", set it up this way. Maybe. But there seems to be no way of detecting "God's" presence.

-Ours is just one universe in an infinite ensemble (multiverse) of universes, each with its own physics. Ours is one of the infinitesimal fraction that won the lottery of life.

The multiverse is the current favourite but there is currently no way of detecting other universes. Also it is not clear why there should be a multiverse in the first place.

Another possibility some people take seriously is that we're living in a sim – that our universe is someone's computer science homework. Sometimes I think this is the most likely.

I don’t suppose we shall ever know the answer but I'll be interested to see comments

Just to clear a few things up.

I personally doubt the existence of an "intelligent designer". But it is important to remember that the possible existence of an intelligent designer has nothing to do with truth or falsity of any human religion. Even if, as I suspect, every single religion is false, an intelligent designer could still exist.

If an intelligent designer created the universe for a purpose that purpose may have nothing to do with us. We may simply be an unintended consequence – a sort of bug in the program. There does not seem to be any way of ever telling.

On the other hand, given the life friendly nature of the laws of physics I think it probable that, if the universe was created for a purpose, life is a part of that purpose.

If you reject evolution you probably have nothing meaningful to say in this debate.

1. “The probability seems vanishingly small that, by chance alone, a universe can come into being in which the laws of physics ...” -
stevenlmeyer

Would please develop?

Probability is “summed over” in physics. In QM knowledge of the position and time of a fundamental particle concurrently, is unobtainable, yet summing can be used to discern outcomes undiscernible in Euclidian geometry. Computer scientists use these techniques today. Moreover, fine grained outcomes are allowed, even though, coarse grained phenomena underlie the actualised phenomena.

Further, the Anderson-Higgs mechanism is to be soon tested at CERN might prove informative:

“The Anderson-Higgs mechanism may be responsible not only for the non zero masses in the standard model* [*Of time symmetry] but also for small deviations from symmetry under reversal of time in particle physics” and “the mechanism breaks the symmetry of the zero-mass approximation and is responsible for the various different non-zero particle masses” . – Gell-Mann

Whereas 3-D Euclidian space has less explanatory power than 4-D space time, 4-D space time could prove to have less explanatory power, to explain the Creation, than an heterotic superstring with two arrows of time. If the superstring is pan-multiversal, its detectable this-universal vibrations could prove indicative of our unverse’s creation. Watch this space! (ahem)

2. I tend to agree with your remark about say Christianity. Moreover, were Jesus to ascend to heaven that would breach of the second law of thermodynamics; along the lines that Hawking corrected himself about matter “leaving the universe” through a Black Hole being a “no-no”. Else, Einstein was wrong, God does “play dice with the universe”, and, these dice are loaded, one outcome for Jesus and a different outcome for everyone else. Having 70-80kg matter blink out of the 4D space-time continuum is contrary to the Laws said God established.

3. Don’t expect too much of modern non-Newtonian physics in our life time. Our species is at least a million years old and we have only one hundred years experience really "explaining" the Creation. We are just crawling.

4. Interesting discussion topic!

Probability has nothing to do with it. Something could have a gazillion to one chance of happening but it is still possible and thats what matters. The chances of me typing uytngr must pretty unlikely but there it is in black and white.

There may have been a "creator" that put in place the structure, laws and physics of the universe in place but they certainly havent been in control nor influenced anything since. Certainly not in the way the godbotherers would have you believe.

Still it is a dangerous opinion for athiests to profess as the godbotherers, in their desperation, will jump on anything to say that they are right and unbelievers are wrong.

Even if there was a "creator" it doesnt answer anything it just brings up the question of who created the creator. Ad infinitum. A pointless exercise in my book and we would be better off forgetting all about it and getting on with making humans lives better.

i dont see..how you can look at your own hand..[and not see the hand of god..in forming it]...i cant see how you can honestly look..at a single flower and see that natural selection..dosnt begin to explain the first flower...let alone the THOUSANDS of types of flowers

yes..there are specialised insects...needed to fertilise certain types of flowers..[but..lets ask for proof which evolved first...and evolved from what>.?..[they are mutually linked..remember..ask your evolutionary god-heads..to explain their godless theories

dont take things on faith...[you faithless generations]..so easilly fooled by generalisations cloaked with science-fictions..[get your replacement god-heads to just make one like it FIRST...before you swallow cold-blooded fish...lol..evolving into warm-blood mammnels

get them[gofheaqd/replascements]..to make a simple living-thing..first...a cell...or even a cell-membrane..or demonstrate one valid evolution..of one GENUS into an other GENUS...not species into species...you mindless..[godless drone/dolts..dont even know the difference]

[nor care..because its easier to follow delusions..than simple truths,..like the clear fact science cant..[nor ever has made life from not life]

your surrounded by miracles..yet are decieved by tricksters,..calling them-selves scientists...to create god-free belief/faith...sheep

watch a tad-pole evolve into a frog..before your eyes...from an egg to a tadpole to the frog..[that lays the egg's]...think eggs cant breed...tadpoles cant breed...how did this god given miracle/frog EVOLVE...into the 1st frog?

or an egg..becomes a catapillar..evolves into a butterfly...but the eggs/grubs CANT breed...so how did the butterfly evolve...or as SEED..a spider..what egg/seed did this evolve...how they survive pre evolving into building their web.or the first SEEd?

your surrounded by proof in nature...but get your evidence from tv...needing you to believe in whiter than white..[or complusory/cures for bird/swine/flue..they soon will inject into you...that will be the direct cause..of the killoff..epidemic..the media been beating up for months...

the spanish flue..ww1..came from compulsory injections..given TO THE TROOPS...the young that wernt killed in war..died from the COMPULSORY CURE..because they too...were trusting science...not god

wake up..your swallowing greater lies/deceptions and missing the truelly amasing proof..god put here for you to find...and you are deneying your OWN greatness...

as jesus said that YE SEE ME DO ..you will do greater

Oliver,

The number of coincidences that have to come together to make chemically based life forms possible is mind-boggling.

See for example:

http://www.np.ph.bham.ac.uk/research/anthropic.htm

An excellent book on the topic is "Just Six Numbers" by Martin Rees. Rees is the astronomer royal and respected figure within the scientific establishment.

It comes down to this. There are certain constants of nature such as the strength of the electromagnetic force or the gravitational force or the ratio of the mass of the electron to the proton that are just right for the emergence of chemical elements and chemically based life. If any of them are just a little bit different from their observed values then, so far as we know, life cannot emerge.

Think of it like this. The "creator" has to set somewhere between 15 and 20 "knobs" to just the right value before igniting the big bang. These knobs set the strengths of the various forces, Planck's constant and even the initial entropy levels in the universe. If any of the knobs are just a little bit out chemical elements don’t get generated through the process called stellar nucleosynthesis and stars don’t last long enough for us to evolve. The odds against all this being just right by chance seem, well, astronomical.

The physicist Paul Davies callsthis the "Goldilocks Enigma." The universe is neither too "hot" or too "cold". It is just right.

Mikk

You are in effect saying it's the multiverse. If there are an infinite number of universes then some small fraction of them will be suitable for life. Does not answer the question of why there should be a multiverse. My guess is we'll never know.

My guess is that if there is a creator he set things in motion and then left the universe(s) to their own devices. I am definitely NOT a "God botherer".

However we need to admit that right now we don’t have any good answers for the Goldilocks Enigma. Pretending we do because we are afraid of the God botherers is not a satisfactory strategy.