Jayb,
In the community in which I live violence and macarbe behaviour is committed by the godless and undisciplined behaviour of those without a view of God or social conscience. Crime is not committed by the devoted believers in the presence of an Amighty Creator upon whose image and holy dignity they are made. There is no fear in love but there is in policing the law breakers - the fear and adrenalin rush of being caught.

"To some it means belief in the spiritual dimentions of reality; to others it means belief in the right to indulge in basic human drives for selfish pleasure or macarbe reasons." and all to often they are the "some" and the "others" are one in the same.

R0bert

So Philo what you are saying is that Pedaphile Priests, Brutal Nuns, Fundamentalist Muslim terrorists bombers, Fundamental Hassimite(?) Jews, White Southern Baptist Fundamentalists , etc, are all wonderful peace loving Law abiding believers in "GOD" PHutttttffffft! I just spilt my coffee.

Oh & if you live in that sort of neighbourhood. My sugestion, move. My neighbourhood isn't like yours & I'd say there isn't a "GOD" believer amoungst them. Strange...? There doesn't seem to be any crime in my area. But then again I only been here for 6 years. I'd better go look again. According to you my neighbourhood must be a seathing hellish pit of crime. I'll look again....... Hmmm... No. Can't find any. Maybe the're doing it behind closed doors. I'll just have to look in the windows late at night to make sure. They must be making bombs or having..... "SEX" Ahhh......, or beating their Wives/children etc, ;-) in secret. Two word for you my friend. Delta Hotel.

jayb it think its important to speak the truth...and the truth is those you mention earlier in your post have naught to do with god..[god is the living loving grace/mercy/logic of life]...not the vile or imperfect

ANYONE can claim to be doing gods will..while doing their own,..its sad you link..love to the vile...dont reject god via liars claiming god's authority...those who lie..regardless of who they accord their lies to..will lie about everything/anything

jesus said by their deeds/works will we know..them...by your words i know your not one of 'them'...

im not saying become one of us...[for we each chose to come to god[good]..one by one...im saying in seeking the good you find god...your closer than you would think....

dont reject god/good.. because of those..who by their deeds reveal them selves..far from the perfect/good living loving grace;..god...none are perfect but god

This thread has attracted the usual homophobes and religious underachievers.

Why do we think we have a secular society?

Archaic and demonstrably wrong Abrahamic religious teachings saturate society. We have parliamentary prayers, many swear on the Bible before giving evidence in courts, and aren't the religions greedy self-serving organisations?

Many demand that their cultural practices be respected whilst displaying a total ignorance for other MORE IMPORTANT cultural aspects of other people.

An example of this is the climbing of Uluru! The Chaser showed this absurdity brilliantly when they pretended that they wanted to climb the PM's church for the view, after he had said climbing Uluru against the owners wishes, is fine. Double standards?

YEP Rudd, you looked like a sour-faced dill! So much for multi-culturalism based on mutual respect! How unChristian!

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/chaser/#/latestepisode/chaser_09_03_07/

If people want to believe in a God, that allegedly murdered innocent children in Noah's flood, and agreed to mad Moses laws then more fool them.

But in the 21st century there is no need for religions that teach untruths as fact. The flood didn't happen and if you believe your God killed innocents in a pretend flood or instructs people to kill others then shouldn't you seek psychological help?

God is so awesome that he can't even heal people with disabilities even with all the prayers for healing.

It's time we took GOD out of everything...sure believe in him if you wish....BUT stop deluding yourselves.

Finally, I have no problem with moderate Muslims per se but one thing does bother me. Muslims want all the freedoms of our society, and yet if we go to a Muslim country we are allowed no such freedoms. Why the double standard? Why aren't the so-called moderate Muslims crying out against these double standards?

How many of you so called religious people have climbed Uluru or would do it if you went there?

I have very little time for religious sensibilities when we trample on the culture of the original inhabitants of Australia! Do religions teach respect? Rudd can't demonstrate it - can you?

Under one God. I gather that you are saying that as a Christian, "Christians" have a monopoly on "Goodness." Everyone else, of course, is a Godless liar/fornacaterer/murerer/Drug addict/thief, etc, etc.

Oh, that came from a very respected travelling preacher. (Southern Baptist) Mind you his entire ministery was, "Kings Cross", in the 60's to the 90's. Hmmm... I wonder if that coloured his perception of ordinary people.

Er, it was you who said that it was important to speak the truth.

Joshua, aka Jesus, said, "by their deeds/works will we know.. them... by your words i know your not one of 'them'..."

By the way it was Emporer Constantine that declared Jesus to be," a God." The granting of "Godships" was the right of Roman Emporers. Jesus was not a "God" before the Nicene Conferance. Oh! here I go again. the Nicene Conferance contained religious leaders from all religions in the Roman Empire. It's aim was to establish a Common Religion through the Roman Empire & to abolish all others. Eusebius, Roman cronicler. History of the Christian Church & other Roman writings.

Isn't it strange that when a good Christian is caught out, the Bakers, etc,etc,etc, on infinitem..., of course, they "never were", Christians. Disownership...? It's called religious brainwashing.

Unfortunatualy some people need to have "fear" (as in, you're all doomed. I tell you. Dooooomed!) in their lives in order to be good. For most of us it just comes naturally. ;-)