Mathter, your last post was about 3000% better than your previous several responses to me. Congratulations! However, you are still dwelling totally in the negative and picking out something that you can just be critical of, without furthering the debate.

Why don’t you have a go at responding to my views in a sensible manner? Or are you afraid to be seen to be basically agreeing with me? That is, to be agreeing with someone that you have made a point of hating, without foundation…simply because I initially expressed a view that you couldn’t handle.

Sensible debate with Luddie old mate. Come on, have you got it in you?

.
“i didnt reply ludwig..<<....we..haven’t done a particularly good job of managing our affairs..at any time,..with all the world’s conflicts and inequality>>.i agree..but,..we do the best with..what we have got to work with...”

OUG, I don’t think we’ve done the best with what we’ve got to work with by any stretch of the imagination, not overall nor under any particular religion.

The big problems that now confront us have been evident for decades, if not to all members of particular communities or faiths, certainly to the wise few amongst them. But rather than religions adapting to deal with these issues, they’ve terribly missed the mark.

Back in my naïve days, 30 years ago, I actually thought that religions did this sort of thing. That is, unite communities and cultures to deal with the big problems that plague them, and work directly towards protecting their future, based on the wisdom of the best old minds in those communities and cultures. But alas, how far from the truth it is!

So I reckon that we could do enormously better with what we’ve got, in terms of protecting our future and living more harmoniously with all the other creatures on this planet. And unfortunately religions are not helping us…and never have.

During this discussion as we were lounging in the Forum, the majority of our secular Gods, on the High Court brought down written reasons for their judgment to allow Kevin Rudd to proceed to fertilise the electorate with lots and lots of money. It took them about one hundred and eighty pages of writing to do so, and while two did not in any way say anything about S 15A Acts Interpretation Act 1901 ( Cth) five of them did, and what they said is significant. This was published on the 9th July 2009, and should be celebrated as Constitution Day, because it marks the day when the Highest Court in Australia admitted we have an effective and binding Constitution.

The decision is Pape v the Commisioner of Taxation, [2009] HCA 23 and if you are brave you may find it on the Austlii Website in Australian Document Collections. Justices French and Heydon had no comment on S 15A Acts Interpretation Act 1901 ( Cth), but Justices Gummow, Crennan, Bell, Hayne and Kiefel, said it applies, and said this about it.

389. The principles governing whether s 15A of the Acts Interpretation Act is to be applied to read down a statutory provision that in some operations would be beyond legislative power are not controversial. They are conveniently described in the joint reasons of five Justices in the Industrial Relations Act Case:

This means that the Gods have spoken, and God is back. They would if they are willing to take the opportunity, now be most likely on an application from an interested party, to read down which means strike down, the provisions of S 39 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 and Order 46 Rule 7A Federal Court Rules as being unconstitutional, and also strike down or read down the provisions of their own High Court Rules 2004 in Regulation 6.6 and 6.7 that currently forbid people from raising Constitutional issues in the High Court.

It is now to be seen whether the High Court will follow its own precedent and restore the Queens name to all process issued.

Bryan Pape, also a barrister and states-rights champion, took on the might of the Commonwealth and lost.
The court has ruled that the Tax Bonus for Working Australians Act passed by Federal Parliament in February is valid under the constitution.

This decision marks the first time in a long time, that the High Court has moved quickly to make a decision, and it is a good decision, because it upholds the Constitution, which should be used all the time to discipline the States. The States have elevated themselves by their own boot straps to the position of Almighty God, and until the 9th July 2009, the High Court has never clearly said they cannot.

As self created Gods, the States have created Courts of the State God, and if you have ever been in one of their Courts, you will now be much poorer, and you will not have received much in the way of justice. The States Rights Champion, has done us all a very great favor, by making the High Court squarely face the fact that it is either a representative of Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, the Australian Sovereign, or it is nothing.

It chose to be of significance, and even though two of them, French and Heydon said nothing about S 15A Acts Interpretation Act 1901 ( Cth), the other five strongly asserted that the Constitution is paramount.

If Bryan Pape who is also a law professor was duly diligent, he would also have raised as a significant piece of legislation, that abolishes State Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. That would have given the High Court a reason to either strike or approve its enactment. As it is now the Parliament of the Commonwealth is insignificant in the extreme. Parliament was treated with utter and complete contempt by the previous High Court, in the High Court Rules 2004 where they left the Queen’s name off all documents issued out of that Court. This is a direct contradiction of S 33 of the High Court of Australia Act 1979 . What happens now

Ludwig wrote:

"And unfortunately religions are not helping us…and never have."

In a threatening world religions gave security, explanations and a sense of community. In our society where many cultures meet and we have the explanations of science it is a divisive force, and its fables should be discarded. Some of its fables actually prevent us from solving problems such as the population explosion, the degradation of the environment and conflicts with those of other beliefs. The worst are the missionary religions such as Christianity and Islam. They both have the delusion that they have a truth denied to others and are therefore entitled to push it on others.

However, nothing has replaced the sense of community that religion gives. Humans may meet on line as on this list, at the work place or at the supermarket, but we live in our little separate nests.

My daughter lives in a place in the United States where there is a great sense of community not dependent on religion, but most people in our society do not.

With a sense of community not dependent on religion we can get together to solve problems caused by, exacerbated by or neglected by religion.

ludwig quote<<..I don’t think we’ve done the best with what we’ve got to work with by any stretch of the imagination,..not overall nor under any particular religion...>>mate how can we judge others fears[let alone see their hopes]we founded organisations with the best intent[like league of nations and the un...even the care groups,docters withoud borders/redcross

ok they have largly become vehivcles for ego based self agrandisment..but look at the bnasic intent behind forming them...its visionary...just like the current vision of the new world order...that yet again is selling a dream...but most people want to see the dream...see its good[for evil]..if we think there is no hope

yes the vile will allways make sure these things only serve their own adgenda...but thats a little group of cccrap...as the bible says on bit of leaven leavens the whole loaf...but that dont mean the whole loaf is bad...most people are good and honerable..but they trust others too much...but the fact remains its better to be abnle to trust..than be suss on everything

<<The big problems...rather than religions adapting to deal with these issues,they’ve terribly missed the mark...>>..perfection takes time..guess we been waiting for a saviour...but till all want peace the best we can get is a way to find peace within ourself..i try not to concern about stuff i can change...

<<Back in my naïve days,..I actually thought that religions..unite communities and cultures to deal with the big problems that plague them..work directly towards protecting their future,..based on the wisdom of the best old minds in those communities and cultures...But alas,how far from the truth it is!>>till people thirst for it..no one can force it to happen

<<we could do enormously better with what we’ve got,..in terms of protecting our future and living more harmoniously...unfortunately religions are not helping us…and never have.>>..on the individual level..we are only responsable for our own selves...govts wont do it..religions arnt allowed..so it become individuals doing it for themself...find the peace within...things arnt as bad as the media needs us to believe

The Queen, Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second by Her Coronation Oath, represents Almighty God, and from the highest balconies and rooftops throughout Australia the cry should go out; GOD IS BACK.

In the Pape case, the assertion that the States are paramount and the Commonwealth is insignificant, was firmly put down by the majority.
After 109 years, the High Court has confirmed that the Parliament of the Commonwealth can make laws that apply to all Australians, even if the States don’t really approve.

The Coronation Oath can be found here: http://www.community-law.info/?page_id=456

The States have got uppity because they have created a parallel black justice system, that no longer subscribes to allegiance to Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, the Christian Queen, but owes its allegiance to the local Law Society and Bar Association, and has steadfastly refused to accept the ruling of the High Court in such cases as the “Kable Principle”.

A black Satanic government is operating between the Parliament of the Commonwealth and the ordinary Australian people, erected by the States as an alternative to Christianity. That Satanic Government got its teeth kicked in on the 9th July 2009. The Kable decision in 1996, should have resulted in a wholesale rollback, of illegitimate and unauthorized conduct by State Judges and Magistrates, but because the High Court was but is now no longer a branch of the New South Wales Law Society, it has refused to allow any except those proposed by the Law Society Members to access its hallowed halls. Bryan Pape is a barrister, so he can come, have his argument accepted and argue, but no unrepresented person ever gets to do so.

How long will it be before the High Court starts to accept everything presented to it, have a look at the document and if it was not tried with a jury as was mandated before 1970, in New South Wales, and throughout Australia in 1903, when the Judiciary Act 1903 was enacted, and use s 44 Judiciary Act 1903, to send it back to its original court with a direction for jury trial. We wait