" ... I believe loyalty to any entity should be provisional and must be abandoned when that loyalty mandates that we violate our conscience. ... "

Yes, I agree with DaveO. The military in particluar need a "legal" conscience vote. I don't buy this argument that there is diminished responsiblity on the grounds of an individual only doing what he/she/other were ordered to do.

Yes, I have seen a doco on the attempted assassination of a.hitler. Thankful too we should be for his psych shooting him up and the moronic winter assault on russia.

The german military aswell as the japs were all whacked on methamphetamine too I read on Wikipedia. Hmmm .. but alas I digress.

My young <edit> are not long out of the state school system though. And one of the award winning better ones I might add. But still, out of control they are, referring to themselves as the chemical generation .. from durries to dealing in dexamphetamine .. just completely out of control, and it has been at least for the last 30 years that I know of.

I want for our children to know of Islam as well as all of the other faiths of the world .. but not thru the vehicle of religion.

I think we have been tip toeing around this issue wispering to each other.
In truth I am still unsure why the thread was posted.
And who really posted it.
But I have no doubt none at all, its rude to expect the British tax payer to pay to segregate,that,s what it is, children.
If we take this complaint as true it points to total failure of multi culturism.
We see evendence in our schools it is just not so.
And thankfully I can say this in my country, sooner we stop telling ourselves the bedtime fairy tale story,s about Gods who never existed the sooner we can fix things that divide us.

Belly says:

"I think we have been tip toeing around this issue wispering to each other. In truth I am still unsure why the thread was posted. And who really posted it."

Taking the opening poster at face value as a muslim of Pakistani origin living in Britain, Australian posters have responded with respect to a demand seemingly being made upon UK taxpayers for special wholly-state-funded schools exclusively staffed by muslims, for exclusively muslim students. It should be noted that the opening poster's demand is also for an exclusive muslim take-over of many Church schools: this take-over presumably to be effected by compulsory aquisition at public expense, as the issue of compensation, or indeed even agreement of church school managements to take-overs, is not addressed by the opening poster.

If anything was to suggest that this topic has been put up as a troll, the demand with respect to church schools would be it. Yet nobody has risen to the bait, if that is what it is. Excluding the opening poster, eighteen different users have now posted to this topic thread. Only one post has been off-topic, and even there was acceptably tangential to the topic. What is interesting is that so far there has been not one 'whack a mozzie'-style post put up to a topic clearly indicating it is about muslim issues: 'Muslim Children in State Schools'.

What is also interesting is that a number of responses have identified the claimed requirements of the OP, inasmuch as they are seen as applying in an Australian situation, with respect to the education of the children of Islamic parents as being indicative of the failure of the policy of 'multiculturalism'.

Taking my cue from an item on the OP's home page, might I suggest that what is needed with respect to 'corporate' or 'organised' Islam in Australia is a 'Mosque of England in Australia' structure, with Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II as its supreme head. That way, issues with respect to Islamic religious freedom and Australian law could be consistently resolved.

Dear davidf and foxy,

“One of the goals of education in a democratic society is to prepare children to enter that society as adults and in a democratic country be accepted for their worth as humans regardless of their ethnic or religious background. Segregation whether by religion, ethnicity or social class opposes that goal.” davidf

“Is it possible to maintain one's ethnic and cultural 'roots'
and identity, while also subscribing totally to the
underpinning values of Australia as a liberal democracy?” foxy

Both are sentiments/questions to which I am quite sympathetic.

As always I find it instructive to look to place the shoe on the other foot to see if it still fits.

In Victoria “a significant majority of Jewish students, estimated at 77 per cent, attend non-government schools, with 62 per cent attending Jewish day schools.”
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-34105173_ITM

Note this is almost the reverse of other Australian students where 65% attend state schools.

“France has only four Muslim schools. So the 8,847 Roman Catholic schools have become a refuge for Muslims seeking what an overburdened, secularist public sector often lacks: spirituality, an environment in which good manners count alongside mathematics and higher academic standards.”… “MARSEILLE: The bright cafeteria of Saint Mauront Catholic school is conspicuously quiet: It is Ramadan and 80 percent of the students are Muslim. When the lunch bell rings, girls and boys stream out past the crucifixes and the large wooden cross in the corridor, heading for Muslim midday prayer.”
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/22654/islam-in-france

CANBERRA, July 27 AAP - “An Australian fighting with the Israeli army has been killed during a fierce battle in southern Lebanon. … The Australian citizen moved back to Israel two and a half years ago to enlist in the army, according to Israeli media reports.”

“Australians could be committing a serious offense under Australian law if they fight for Hizbullah in Lebanon, the attorney-general warned Thursday. Attorney-General Philip Ruddock warned that traveling to a foreign country to fight under some circumstances is an offense under Australia's toughened counter-terrorism laws punishable by 25 years in prison.” Jpost.com

I think the toes are pinching just a little.

Dear csteele,

You pointed out the disparity between Australia's treatment of Muslim schools and Australia's treatment of Jewish schools and France's Catholic schools acceptance of Muslim students where they find an atmosphere of spirituality. You have also pointed out the disparity of treatment of Australians fighting for Hizbullah and Australians fighting for Israel.

I am a Jew and do not favour government subsidy of private schools whether they be Jewish, Muslim, Christian or anything else. If we want to have a society where we do not look on the other with suspicion we should not segregate school children by race, religion or other criteria unrelated to the development of their potential as individuals. Rather than use the example of the aid that government gives Christian and Jewish religious schools as a reason for doing the same thing for the Muslim community government should not be supporting religious or non-public schools of any kind. If parents want to send their children to such schools it should be their right. However, they or their religious community should pay for it, and the schools should be obliged to teach what children need to know to be productive adults in Australian society. I think the government's support for Jewish and Christian schools is wrong and does not justify extending that wrongness to Muslims. Government subsidies to non-public schools of any description should be eliminated.

Retention of one's ethnic and religious roots and an atmosphere of spirituality is a matter of individual choice which should not be funded by the government. All those who have voluntarily come to Australia simply have to accept they are living in Australian society. An exception can be made for those whose roots have been destroyed by government action. Aborigines have been dispossessed of their land, forced to live on missions which have had little or no regard for their spiritual practices and have been thrown together regardless of their tribal roots. They have had an alien religion forced on them so an exception can be made as Australian society has been forced on them.

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In the public schools the school chaplaincy program has put fundamentalist Scripture Union Christian chaplains in the schools. Their avowed goal is to convert children to their brand of Christianity. Trained counselors who do not have any agenda of religious conversion should replace them.

France gives no state subsidies to Catholic schools so your example is not relevant.

I also think Australians should have a right to fight for any foreign entity as long as that entity is not at war with Australia and does not act against Australia. The Australian counter-terrorism laws go too far.