david & steel,
Job was in his early life a polytheist who worshipped the fertility Elohim (plural) at Uggarit but through the influence of Teman his cousin (them both grandsons of Abraham who concluded there is but one God). Job now a convert to monotheism when subsequently disaster struck him. His former polytheistic friends make the claim that the curses of the gods, as identified in affix of the code of Hammurabi, had fallen upon him because he had sinned by turning against them. So he was tried under Hammurabi law because of the curses that fell upon him by the polytheistic defenders of Uggarit, and former friends.

The book of Job probably originally an Edomite script is a defense of monotheism against the Chaldean polytheism, The corrupt Hebrew text used in the Christian Bible retains over 150 Edomite wirds. It has had a long history though the Septuagent, written for Greek speaking Jews has confused the later translatours by using Lord to interpret every original words for a god. The text is most probably a drama tragic retained from Babylonian Exile litrature.

david and Steel,
The trinity is a Roman spatial construct of the New Testament. They concluding there are three independent persons, rather than one unified personality (spirit) expressed in different revelations. There is but one spirit and that spirit was revealed in Jesus Christ. Jesus humanity was not God, but he revealed the spirit and character of God. Therefore Christians admire and seek to live by that same spirit, in attitude, wisdom, action etc. The values of those attitudes are eternal.

Dear davidf,

Perhaps I see too much in Job but I think it is one of the best and most questioning books of the Bible.

If the house had fallen in and Job’s sons were killed but the cause had been an earthquake what would your reaction have been? Would it have moved from considering it unjust to unfortunate?

For me Job works so well on many levels but at its most basic there is an acceptance of God as a force of nature. Capricious yes, and powerful, but his providence is not determined by the wishes of man but entirely his own.

Although Job knows there is little point in rebelling against what is happening to him he assumes the right to question whether it is just. In the questions posed to Job God (38:4-39:30) goes from creation to questions concerning inanimate nature on to those concerning animate nature.

I am lead to believe it was Jewish tradition that Job must have sinned against God in some manner to receive the treatment he did. The Holocaust changed that.

Another aspect to the story of Job is the attempt to disavow the notion that wealth, health and happiness are intrinsically connected to godliness. It was the message Job’s friends put to him as an explanation for his suffering but at the end God rebuked them all.

Jesus progressed this when he told the rich man to give all his possessions to the poor if he wanted to be granted eternal life.

Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

The disciples obviously felt the rich must have found favour with God but Jesus might just have said “but with nature/fate anything can happen”

P.S. Paul participated in persecuting early Christians.

Steele, Philo & DaveO

An interesting comment re Islam being defined as submission. Yes, in my experience, on those things which cannot be substantiated by normal means, the catch cry is always:

" ... harus percaya, harus percaya ... "

(You) must believe, must believe.

..

Be Christianity mono or poly is also largely inconsequential to me, but I note that there are varying views as to what the Trinity means.

Here's a different interpretation:

"Male" as in Son, does not refer to gender, but rather that Spirit (the non-corporeal) penetrates matter.

1. The Son represents Spirit in commune or made manifest in Humanity.

2. The Holy Spirit represents that which force which "links" us consciously together. (at times)

&

3. The Father represents the totality of All, both the corporeal and the non-corporeal.

So, not 3 Gods (or 7 Elohim) but rather different manifestations of the same thing.

..

Indeed, "the more the merrier."

I have also several members of my family that have been involved on the teaching staff of both State and private education and on the boards of religious schools. I have been in support of private schooling having 5 children and 7 grandchildren attend private religious schools. I find that parents prefer the ethos because they practise and teach social attitudes that encourage and build children that place them well in the future.

However I have reservations about Muslim schools because they are religiously exclusive, and teach an isolationist view from society. This breeds social division and isolation rather than inclusiveism.

csteele wrote: “If the house had fallen in and Job’s sons were killed but the cause had been an earthquake what would your reaction have been? Would it have moved from considering it unjust to unfortunate?”

Dear csteele,

I regard Job as a fable. It apparently is a story invented to make a point. The point seems to be don’t question. Just assume that whatever happens to you should just be accepted with faith. I prefer Prometheus. I don’t believe in a God who would murder innocent people as a test. The God of the Bible is a nasty creation – warning Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of knowledge. It is most unfair. He knew they were going to disobey. If they hadn’t eaten of the fruit how would they know it was wrong to disobey. He demands Abraham show his faith by being willing to murder his own son. In the New Testament he subjects his own son to an agonising death. Although there may be a God I cannot believe that God is the nasty piece of work described in the Bible. My reaction is to the fable not to an actual happening. If there is a God I don’t believe he violates the laws of nature. If there is a God I don’t know what he does.

I think Paul is also a nasty piece of work. He persecuted Christians while he was a Jew. When he became a Christian he just turned his viciousness toward his former coreligionists.

Abraham was asked to commit an atrocity to prove his devotion. Paul proved his devotion by hate of the Other whatever side he was on.

One can also cherry pick passages of the Bible which exemplify decency. However, those who invented the God of the Bible invented a monster I find unworthy of worship.