Dear Philo,

If we allow religious schools I think we have to allow all of them or none as long as they cover the requisite non-religious subjects.

You wrote: "However I have reservations about Muslim schools because they are religiously exclusive, and teach an isolationist view from society. This breeds social division and isolation rather than inclusiveism."

Any religious schools teaches the particular religion that sponsors them as truth. What experience have you had with Muslim schools so that you can speak with authority about what they teach and their enrollment policies? I am under the impression that fundamentalist Christian schools are religiously exclusive, and teach an isolationist view of society. Although they may accept anybody I doubt non-fundamentalist parents will send their children to such a school so they are de facto isolationist.

davidf wrote;
“I regard Job as a fable. It apparently is a story invented to make a point. The point seems to be don’t question. Just assume that whatever happens to you should just be accepted with faith.”

Dear davidf,

Of course Job is a fable and an extremely powerful one at that. As Fr William Mott puts it “Is Job meant to be historical? Not likely. Just as Pope John Paul II said Genesis 1-3 was myth - not meaning fairytale, but rather an ancient story put together to bring out some things true in themselves”

I feel the tempering in the oral traditions of the ancients before it was committed to written form has produced along with Ecclesiastes some sublime contemplative literature. One sometimes wonder how books such as these made it into the bible but I am inclined to give the ‘editors’ some credit for recognising their weight despite their reactionary nature.

Could I invite you to read Job again as you would Shakespeare. Remove the last chapter from the mix as many scholars feel it is a later addition and it is probably what makes it unpalatable for you.

Some of Job’s questions are eternal; “Why do the wicked prosper and live long?” When his friends reply that the wicked will receive their comeuppance Job retorts "So how can you console me with your nonsense? Nothing is left of your answers but falsehood!"

When Eliphaz says "Submit to God and be at peace with him; in this way prosperity will come to you.” Job basically says bugger that, instead give me my day in court. “I would state my case before him and fill my mouth with arguments.”

I love the study of mans morals clashing with sin. For Abraham to have refused to kill his son would have meant sinning against God although you rightly point out the immoral nature of the act. Job however doesn’t submit meekly, he takes God on about the injustice of his treatment. There is real moral indignation in Job’s words.

Cont’

In the verses "But if I go to the east, he is not there; if I go to the west, I do not find him.
When he is at work in the north, I do not see him; when he turns to the south, I catch no glimpse of him.” one hears an accusation that God is avoiding facing Job.

I'm not saying he isn’t scared “God has made my heart faint; the Almighty has terrified me.” but he is not about to yield “Yet I am not silenced by the darkness, by the thick darkness that covers my face.”

In chapter 24 he proceeds to make the case that God has failed to deliver justice as promised. I would ignore verses 18-20 as they are so discordant with the rest of Job’s accusations that I feel they can only be later additions. He finishes with “"If this is not so, who can prove me false and reduce my words to nothing?". By chapter 28 he is becoming more direct “As surely as God lives, who has denied me justice, the Almighty, who has made me taste bitterness of soul,” and of his friend “I will never admit you are in the right; till I die, I will not deny my integrity.” Go Job you good thing!

When Job rhetorically asks “Where does understanding dwell?” his reply is “Destruction and Death say, 'Only a rumour of it has reached our ears.'. “ How true, I am quite moved by this verse. The tragedy of the Christmas tsunami defied understanding.

Job‘s next accusation is that God‘s behaviour toward him doesn‘t even measure up to that expected of man. "Surely no one lays a hand on a broken man when he cries for help in his distress.” however “Yet when I hoped for good, evil came; when I looked for light, then came darkness.”

He reminds God of his expected role “For what is man's lot from God above, his heritage from the Almighty on high? Is it not ruin for the wicked, disaster for those who do wrong?”

Cont’

If so inclined skip Elihu’s dissertation (bit of a rehash) and rejoin at Chapter 38. One gets the sense that God wants Job to stand up and be counted, ironically. in my mind, calling for him to “Brace yourself like a man”. He then to proceeds to ask Job who the hell he thinks he is especially when compared to God. He comes off almost as a jock. Or a better description might be a disinterested Gulliver. ‘Oops, yeah okay, I stepped on another Lilliputian, but what do you expect, I’m busy doing important ’big peoples’ business that you wouldn‘t understand. I can’t be looking everywhere I step.’

I find the next four chapters a delight. There is an Errol Flynn aura about God’s address. Swashbuckling, confident, boastful, and but delivered with poetic, passionate descriptiveness and some humour.

There is a sense of disappointment that Job didn’t give God the third degree when invited to do so but I think most humans can understand. Job instead replies, "You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak; I will question you, and you shall answer me.' My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you. Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes." A very human response.

I imagine him thinking of God, ‘I had heard he was big but this bloke is built like a brick sh*thouse plus he has just finished telling me how bloody good he is and I believe every word. Discretion might be the better part of valour today I think.’

But there is another sense that Job seems to realise to futility of gaining God’s understanding of the nature of humans and their efforts at moral codes.

The Book of Job for me is about realising the limits to expectations of God. It is more about acceptance rather than faith and if his next dive bomb off the top tower wipes out another 100,000 then so be it, not just a force of nature but nature itself, he rarely means any harm by it.

Dear csteele,

I shall reread Job and comment on the points you made.

cs steal<<Why do the wicked prosper/live long?”>>you must know..who's realm this is..[..i will explain..yet again..this is satans realm]..funny/[sad]..see/how evil thrives..in this realm,..but this realm/is of the flesh..[the next realms are of the spirit..that..the flesh revealed/in these realms]

job..is difficult to read..[here is this acclaimed..[god fearing dude,..who thinks he/knows the god..[of love and grace?]..not in the least..he's..a fool fearing the true god/love..with extreem wealth..[given him by the god..of THIS realm...satan..[to test him]..

satan was cast out of heaven/into this realm..[think of this realm as his/satans place of exile...the only place where good and bad can mix..where all we see/hear/feel..is made for us to see and hear through the fears and deceptions/of him who rules..[lords it over]..this realm..[a prison..to contain those rejecting eternal/life/grace/mercy/love..[god]...everyone here/gets a life sentance

true/good;..god..needs no sacrifice from sacrificial lambs..[for god gives life..[is not pleased/by the murder of any life..[all life is given from the true living/loving god]...read you not the law..[thou shalt not murder?..is that so complicated?

see that the deciever/decieves..[see even abraham..was decieved[thinking god..[the life-giver]..sought the death of his only son[pure insanity]..

who when he realised/the absurdity of murder..was further tested by satan needing him to murder..an innocent ram..[that he did murder..a sacrifice..[a life..given only from good[god]

think you god is pleased..with any murder?..even the lord of this realm tires of the sacrifice and blood whoreship...how stupid those calling themselves gods-people..yet not getting god is life..[no death serves the life-giver]

job was a wholy fool..who thought the wealth of this realm was true wealth..[read his words carfully/you hear from his own unclean lips he didnt know good/god..this fool was far from holy..[knew nothing of the LIVING god..that gifts us all..our very lives..

[who has sent..the new command..love of neighbour..is the how of loving god]...funny how logic escapes fools..[love god by serving life,..just like god serves each of us our very lives...

he who would lead/you will serve you..[not kill you]...death where is thy sting..[jesus revealed this is not his realm,..[he was offered this realm,..but wisely refused the wealth of the flesh..

know who's realm this is..