Yabby - what a crude dismissal of the point, which wasn't about appearances; but about how one feels as a result of the actions of another.

Dignity: "The quality or state of being worthy of esteem or respect."

In an equal exchange (regardless of how undignified BOTH might APPEAR); neither leaves the scene feeling robbed of self worth or value by the other.

*regardless of how undignified BOTH might APPEAR*

Hehe Pynchme, sitting on the toilet is not dignified, no matter
how you try to colour it. Its not much different with sex.

Respect is earned, not just given.

It comes back to people being responsible for their actions. Most
of them should be able to think a little rationally after all.

What you are implying is that a whole lot of people are simply too
stupid to make rational decisions about their own lives. I happen
to disagree with you. We all make mistakes, we learn by them.
Such is life.

If sex is going to make you feel "undignified" and you fret about it,
well let partners know, they might want to find another partner who is
less concerned about how things appear.

Sex is normal and natural, and fun, but certainly not dignified.

But frankly it does not matter a hoot.

LOL, Pynchme is going to extraordinary lengths to demonstrate that basically, she doesn't much like sex. Who'd have guessed?

On a more serious note, Naomi Wolf, one of the more well-known of the 70s feministas. wrote a piece which was published in the SM-H on Saturday that goes to the whole issue of biological deteriminsm.

What she says is remarkably similar to what Belly, Yabby and myself and a few others have been pointing out since the start of the thread.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/how-the-male-brain-cant-see-the-laundry-pile-up-20090605-bydw.html?page=-1

I quote:

"For almost 40 years, that era's Western feminist critique of rigid sex-role stereotyping has prevailed. In many ways, it has eroded constraints that turned peaceable boys into aggressive men and stuck ambitious girls in low-paying jobs."

"The feminist critique, for example, has totally remade elementary-level education, where female decision-makers prevail: the construction of male hierarchies in the schoolyard is often redirected for fear of "bullying", with boys and girls alike expected to "share" and "process" their emotions. But many educators have begun to argue that such intervention in what may be a hard-wired aspect of "boy-ness" can lead to boys' academic underperformance relative to girls and to more frequent diagnoses of behavioural problems.

And education is just the beginning. An entire academic discipline emerged out of the wholesale critique of the male tendency to create hierarchy, engage in territoriality and be drawn to conflict."

"Moreover, in her description of our evolution, Fisher notes that males who could tolerate long periods of silence (waiting for animals while in hunt mode) survived to pass on their genes, thus genetically selecting to prefer "space". By contrast, females survived best by bonding with others and building community, since such groups were needed to gather roots, nuts and berries while caring for small children."

"According to Gurian, if women accept these biological differences and work around them, men respond with great appreciation and devotion (often non-verbally). Women who embrace these findings report relations with men become much smoother and more intimate."

I await the claims that Ms Wolf is not a "real" feminist...

Well said antiseptic.
Notice the lie, the over and again lie.
That in debating this issue I am saying men never get it wrong?
Of course they do, just as often as women.
And the idea that only footballers do this?
Yes I highlighted sexual habits can be seen in some of our posts.
The refusal, sheer I will not look at the evidence.
May even introduce untrue evidence to support my views attitude is on display.
Feminists, in my view are not representive of, females.
Look at the depth of intent to blame only the men, almost blind to evidence women often look for and start these things.
Yes saw your thread jewely, will drop in , but take a different tack than you.
I would, true, let KFC or the golden arches run DOCs, before government, my party my government in this state but WORTHLESS without a trip to the rubbish tip for leadership team, one way trip.
Over all let me assure posters I remain unionist for life activist too, and am an average bloke who would never harm a female.
I however have been branded here , because I say it like it is.
Social justice is not the property of the extremes left or right, answers come from majority groups.

"Yes saw your thread jewely, will drop in , but take a different tack than you."

And I Belly, will put you over my knee.

"LOL, Pynchme is going to extraordinary lengths to demonstrate that basically, she doesn't much like sex. Who'd have guessed?" (septic)

You agree with THIS tinker?
Is THIS what you meant Yabbs? I doubt it. Or have YOU now resorted to these smirking tacky little putdowns?

You two (you know which), would be quite at home in a spit and sawdust pub, dribbling your beer, chainsmoking, and exchanging dirt jokes.

You are a tacky little pair.

I'm also wondering if this is the original Belly? You are not the same bloke.