Belly,

What a paradox in you last two posts.

(Btw: I don't think that rage fuels Ginx at all. I think it's quite proper exasperation.)

You just gave in two posts the point we try to make but that you refuse to see. That is: that the same sense of entitlement that the father (you just mentioned) had to abuse his daughter for his own pleasure or ego, regardless of any psychological or other consequences to her; regardless of any assault on her dignity as a human, is the same sense of entitlement shared by many men and far too tolerated in our community; that men are entitled to treat females any way they want; use their bodies any way they want - regardless of psychological damage; regardless of loss of dignity.

You think he wouldn't have tried to justify himself by thinking or arguing: "She likes it"; "She didn't say no"; "She knew I'd be home; she put herself in this situation."; "She was wearing such and such - asking for it."; "Women are whores...She'll be having sex at the first chance anyway...".

Consent is nothing to do with this point; for even IF she (Claire) consented (and she didn't - not to 6 takers and assorted viewers) - agreeing to sex is an act of faith; confidence that the other person/s will treat you with regard - a mutual exchange.

Occasionally someone like that father is singled out and pointed to as an extreme - but he ISN'T extreme. He's not even unusual. Worse, the beliefs that tell him and reinforce every day to him that he can do such a thing, are all around us. The football culture has enshrined it. They are notable because they have it in their power to act as male role models and they aren't doing a very good job of that.

- and more re: the girl to whom you referred Belly. She doesn't smile any more; you say she is married to a grub and living the hard life.
I am NOT surprised.

That's part of the whole issue. It is a well researched and established fact that many victims of incest; rape; any sort of sexual assault - are convinced by the act/s of the perpetrator that they deserve no better for themselves. Those are often the people who are promiscuous. They believe they have no value except as an object for someone else's use.

This phenomenon also involves the human tendency to reenact; trying to understand and reach some resolution within themselves, for as awful as the abuse is, most want to love their father (or other abuser) and it's no doubt a very toxic mix to despise someone one also loves; to understand the hurt and abuse. Very often such victims marry or partner to people very like the abuser. Others cut themselves; attempt suicide and so on. The psychological pain and confusion becomes intolerable.

Many people who have been abused cannot CANNOT say no, when overwhelmed by the power of another wanting sex. They have learned that resistance makes it last longer or brings more punishment. It is also a well researched fact that victims of child sexual abuse experience a higher rate of rape and assorted further abuses, than females in the general population.

The girl you mentioned is to some extent a prisoner of her past. She might one day get beyond it; alternative knowledge and developing trust of others will help diffuse what she has learned (and believes about herself) so far.

R: DOCs. I have seen both the very best and the very worst of them.
Their policies have changed from time to time over the years. Last I heard they would act on 3 reports received from professional, mandatory reporters.

Let's face it; they have an awful job to do. For every bad case we hear about or witness, they have no doubt done hundreds of worthwhile interventions.

Don't you think many people (me included) would be the first to jump up and down, if (when; coz it sure happens) they victimized someone who didn't deserve it.

For all their faults; they are all we have. It won't do any harm to report; but it might do some good. What other help do youngsters have?

It won't help anyone to throw our hands up in the air and scorn them. We have got to help them to get it right; and help kids as well as we can in the process.

"Ginx goodby, bank on it, but you need to get in touch with reality, truth, and maybe what ever drives that blindness and rage." (Quote: Tinkerbelly)

Ahhhh! Tinks,-all these goodbyEs...
I am little concerned whether you respond to me or not. But I will respond to you, when you post such pernicious rationale in your magic trick of making irresponsible thugs into victims.

And I've said this elsewhere: I am even less interested in your definition of what constitutes my bad behaviour in your eyes;...as opposed to the 'good guys', who of course agree with your opinions!

What has occurred on at least three threads, is a full on attack on the female contingent (and some courageous blokes!), of OLO for daring to suggest that a group of so-called adult sportsmen, could possibly have behaved in a less than satisfactory way.

I happen to think that that behaviour was nasty, that your (plural) defence of it, and the manner in which that defence was conveyed, was damned nasty!

So the moral high ground of judging me is laughable!

Pynchme is accurate; I am completely exasperated by this.

One more thing:- how interesting to see your reference to a male;-a father, behaving very badly, when it suited the purpose of your argument to show that a man CAN behave inappropriately. Such flexibility of opinion!

"Jewely may I invite you to start a thread?
It is clear your story,s of, well white trash if you wish.
Are a fact ,people live like that, why?
We could talk about DOCs or how police conduct themselves in such community,s."

Hey Belly baby, I thought about it. I have requested a thread but sort of about DoCS in a different kind of way. I have re-written it and re-submitted it...cause yeah I did go on a bit the first time round.

Bags you do one on police, my son still has a scar from his first encounter with the local boys in blue.

White trash.. well they're just trashy... and white. People think India has a caste system, all countries do aye.

*that men are entitled to treat females any way they want; use their bodies any way they want - regardless of psychological damage; regardless of loss of dignity.*

Pynchme, you really need a mirror in your bedroom, for rest assured,
when you are humping away, it would not look that dignified.

Its about the same when sitting on the toilet.

But they are both natural, normal human activities, even if they
don't look so dignified.