Humans also tend to breathe, does a foetus breathe?
Humans also tend to be defined as separate from animals by their brains, does a zygote have a brain?
Can a foetus think?
We can amputate a hand without comitting murder, and it has it's own fingerprints.
A penis can also be amputated, which usually gets a wince or a laugh, or both.
Slaves can be emancipated, can a foetus?

Bugsy,

<<Humans also tend to breathe, does a foetus breathe?>>
Should we feel free to eliminate all those who require resuscitation or mechanically assisted breathing, even an aqualung? A foetus is arguably more alive than a person requiring resuscitation insofar as they don't need active intervention to keep them alive.
<<Humans also tend to be defined as separate from animals by their brains, does a zygote have a brain?>>
Are you arguing that abortion should be disallowed once brain development commences?
<<Can a foetus think?>>
Can a person in a coma, under anaesthesia or even asleep think?
Can a one day old child think better than a one day before term child think?
<<We can amputate a hand without comitting murder, and it has it's own fingerprints.
A penis can also be amputated, which usually gets a wince or a laugh, or both.>>
Is it lawful for someone to amputate someone else's hand or penis without their consent?
You could amputate the hand or penis of a child in utero and they would arguably still live, given appropriate medical care.
<<Slaves can be emancipated, can a foetus?>>
Can Bugsy me emancipated from his chained thinking?

Your arguments make me wince, but my expectations are not very high anymore.

Expectations are very often correlated with standards, KMB.

Assisted breathing is still breathing.
I am not arguing anything about when or not abortions should be alllowed or disallowed, merely asking questions.
But you seem to be arguing that we can't abort after fingerprints develop. That seems a bit arbitrary to me.
How does one get consent from a hand or penis? I know many people talk about talking with one's hands and thinking with ones penis, but I never heard one actually speak, nor expected it to give it consent without the actual control of a brain.

Proclamations abound, emancipations not so much.

Bugsy,
Gobbledygook to you too.

“How can you kill another human?”
Oh Hi KMB, I would get a gun and stand way back from the splatter. [Jewely: off track and immature]

“The common argument is that a woman can do what she wants with her own body.”
Hmm… or anyone can do what they want with their bodies really. Not that I am up Oz Law but they can here can’t they? {Jewely: dodgy]

Analogically, slave owners should decide on the fate of their slave and it is no business of any non slave-owner.”
But the slave owners didn’t get drunk one night and have the slaves appear in their fallopian tubes. [Jewely: could be on track not sure]

“Analogically, if you're against slavery then don't own one.”
Oh yeah I kinda giggled at that, nice come back. [Jewely: off track but couldn’t stop]

“So the question comes down to the humanity of the foetus, which can be reasonably supported, as described above. Can it be definitively established that the foetus is not human?”
Maybe it becomes “human” soon as mummy decides she wants it. [sorta on track]

“If not, then surely the law should err in favour of the foetus.”
Not if it’s a Male judge! [fully on track here]

“I prefer the brutal honesty of pro-abortion feminists like Camille Paglia who…
…At least people like her have thought about it.”
Yes she must have got a hua of a headache. Probably doesn’t drink or get raped a lot either. [well off track and probably too flippant]

I think we have wondered off on some pro or anti thing – my only argument was that men should not be included in it unless the father and then he still does not get to make the final decision.

You obviously have strong feelings that abortions should not be allowed and I am really sorry if it was you I shoved out the way in the clinic car park around 1987 in Wellington and that stuff I said was awful and I apologise.

Bugsy, get outta here there’s gonna be a cat fight

*Can it be definitively established that the foetus is not human?*

KMB, sure a foetus is human, but it is not a person. The term
"child" applies to a person, murder applies to people. So
your emotive rhetoric won't get you far.

A sperm can be human, a human sperm. The same applies to an egg.
Yet we flush them down lifes toilet without another thought. They
are beings, they are human.

So you are free to draw your little line in the sand at the point
of a fertilised egg, but I remind you that an acorn is not an
oak tree, etc.

Fact is that Darwin was correct. Far more potential beings of
any species will be created, then can ever survive. That is nature
for you and its nature which aborts most embryos.

You are going to have to go to about week 23, until you find what
could be called a human brain in that foetus. By far the majority
of abortions happen well before week 12.

So you have your religious knickers in a knot for no good reason
really.

Most likely you just believe what you grew up believing. See the
bright side, had you grown up in Iraq, you might now be a devout
muslim !