What is 'truly Christian'. As another poster stated it would depend a lot on which arm of Christianity were to take hold.

I would shudder at a society that is truly Christian if it means that all others are persecuted and we have to conform to one set of Christian behaviours that might be espoused by the likes of the Exclusive Brethren or the Patriarchs of Tasmania.

But if truly Christian means - taking Foxy's point - compassionate and inclusive (secular) it would not be far removed from what experience today. None of us are persecuted for being atheists or for subscribing to other beliefs/religions. Which is why I would rather live here than in countries who observe a strict religious code.

DreamOn asked:

I must ask DavidF a rudey? What's this Kosher Sex then?

It’s probably before your time, but Rudey (Rudy) Vallée (28 July 1901 – 3 July 1986) was an American singer, actor, bandleader, and entertainer. Born Hubert Prior Vallée in Island Pond, Vermont, he took up the saxophone and acquired the nickname "Rudy" after then famous saxophonist Rudy Wiedoeft

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Vallee

Jews have a different attitude towards sex from that of Christians and Buddhists. The ascetic tradition is almost lacking. God created the earth to enjoy. [Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.] If you deny yourself food, drink and sex for no reason you are denying God since you reject the good things that he has put on earth for you. If you deny yourself food, drink and sex for the sake of your own holiness you are guilty of the sin of self-righteousness.

No Jewish denomination advocates anything like a missionary position or sees anything thing wrong in oral sex.

In Australia there are three main branches – Orthodox, Masorti and Progressive. The Orthodox feel the same way about homosexuality as fundamentalist Christians do, but other branches feel differently. Outside of the Orthodox homosexuality is no bar to being a rabbi or cantor, and some rabbis have officiated at same sex marriages.

Sex is not just for procreation. It is a bond of love between human beings and meant as such by God.

Dear david f,

Your explanation of the Jewish take on sex

reminded me of a joke:

A Priest and a Rabbi were sitting next to each other
on a long flight.

After an hour passes and not a single word is exchanged
by the two men, the Priest finally turns to the Rabbi and
says, "Rabbi, do you mind if I ask you a personal
question?" The Rabbi replies, "Of course, go ahead."

"I understand that many of you Jewish people, especially
Rabbis, keep kosher and, don't as such eat things like
bacon or ham." The Rabbi acknowledges that. "Haven't you
ever tasted bacon or ham?" asks the Priest.

The Rabbi explained. "Many years ago, I was visiting a small
town in the middle of nowhere and found myself in a diner
one Sunday morning. There was no one around so I ordered bacon
and eggs. It was quite good but that was the only time
that ever happened."

"Now, can I ask you a very personal question?" asks the Rabbi.
The Priest says, "Sure, go ahead."

"You Priests take an oath of celibacy, right?" "Yes," replies
the Priest.

"Well, haven't you ever had sex since you've become a Priest?"
asks the Rabbi. The Priest leans towards the Rabbi and
answers softly, "As a young parishioner, I was approached by
a troubled woman who was looking for my guidance. She was
an incredibly beautiful young woman and one thing led to
another. So, yes, just once I had sex with a woman."

A few moments pass and the Rabbi leans over to the Priest and
remarks, "A lot better than pork, isn't it?"

Dear *DavidF*

yes I do appreciate your posts. Yes Rudey and the Vagabond Luver was a bit before my time. I was born under the Aquarian sign in the summer of '69, bastard child of a flower power girl and carried as a mascot in a back pack to anti nam wars as a rug rat, though I have no recollection of this.

Rabbi Schoomzey seems a bit caught up about this "divorce" thing. In some cases I would suggest it is good. In my case, strewth, domestic violence etc etc .. my blood father is a thoroughly vile individual - I am thankful though that I ended up with a v.kind pommy step dad .. temporarily .. actually I had several father figures. ..

People grow and change, and sometimes divorce is appropriate i.m.o. Some of these religious types who carry on .. !JESUS! .. clueless. I hope Shmoozey preaches from a perspective of more than just his own difficult childhood.

As for JC preaching to be above family. Another of my father figures used to say:

"Blood may be thicker than water, but Spirit is thicker still."

I can relate to this. Perhaps another thread at some point.

david f>>..Outside of the Orthodox homosexuality is no bar to being a rabbi or cantor,and some rabbis have officiated at same sex marriages.

Sex is not just for procreation...It is a bond of love between human beings!..?.>>

from
http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm
I apologize..for the'language'which will appear'here-UNDER'

from The official unabridged..Soncino'Edition of the'Talmud'..published in 1935..quotations with footnotes from the Soncino Edition of the Talmud,(Book)

YEBAMOTH,60b."As R.Joshua,b.Levi related:`There was a certain town in the Land of Israel the legitimacy of whose inhabitants disputed,and Rabbi sent R.Ramanos who conducted an inquiry and..found in it the daughter of a'proselyte'....*who was under the age of three years..!and one day..,and Rabbi declared her eligible to live with a priest"

note..A proselyte under the age of three years and one day may be married by a priest...And was married to a priest.ie.,permitted to continue to live with her...'husband'!

SANHEDRIN,55b-55a...:"What is meant by this?..Rab said:Pederasty with a child below nine years of age..is not deemed as pederasty..with a child above that.

Samuel said:Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that.....55a)(he)who commits bestiality,whether naturally or unnaturally:...or a woman who causes herself to be beastially abused,....whether naturally or unnaturally,is liable to punishment."

(footnotes)"(1)The reference is to..the passive..'subject'/victim..of sodomy...As stated in supra[54a,guilt is incurred by the active participant even if the former be a minor;..i.e.,less than thirteen years old...

2)Rab makes nine years the minimum;..but if one committed sodomy with a child of lesser age,...no guilt is incurred..!...Samuel makes three the minimum...(There are thus three distinct clauses in this Baraitha.

why single out pederasty:..in all crimes of incest,..the'passive'adult does not incur'guilt'..unless the other'party'is at least nine years and a day?

Hence the Baraitha supports Rab's'contention'that nine years(and a day)is the minimum age of the...passive partner..for the adult to be liable."(emphasis in original,Ed.)..Before giving any more verbatim quotations from the"sort of book"..from which it is falsely alleged Jesus"drew the teachings''..

In'official-statement'made by Rabbi Morris N.Kertzer..that the Talmud"IS THE LEGAL CODE...WHICH FORMS THE BASIS OF JEWISH RELIGIOUS LAW..AND IT IS THE TEXTBOOK USED IN THE TRAINING OF RABBIS"...Please bear this in mind as you read further.

http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm

Dear One Under God,

I read your post telling me terrible things Jews are taught. I never heard of these things, and I had a Jewish education. At the site
(http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm) you listed and saw:

'FACTS ARE FACTS'
THE TRUTH ABOUT KHAZARS (the so-called Jews)
Distinguishing between the "Jew", and Hebrews who are Israelites.

That told me enough. Unfortunately there are Jew hating websites. Also unfortunately Christians operate some of them. They make up or repeat horrible things about Jews. One of the problems some Christians have is that Jesus was a Jew. Some Christians accept that. Some don’t like it. One way to deal with that is to deny that Jesus was a Jew by arguing that the Jews of today do not have a connection with the Hebrews of the time of Jesus. They are really all descendents of Khazars, a people who became converted to Judaism. Actually some Jews are, but most are not.

If one believed the website then Jesus was really not a Jew because the Jews of today are not descended from the ancient Hebrews.

From http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article5504478.ece

“The theory was originally developed by David Ben Gurion, Israel's first Prime Minister. But it has gained a new lease of life since a study into a rare blood disorder shared by Jews and Palestinians revealed a closer genetic match between the communities than between Palestinians and other Arabs. “It's all a tragic mistake, a tragic misunderstanding,” said Misinai, who divides his time between tracking down Palestinians who acknowledge their Jewish heritage, and lobbying ministers, ambassadors, religious leaders and activists in both communities.”

The above is from the Times, a reliable English newspaper. The shared genetic heritage will make no difference in resolving the conflict in Israel since the conflict is religious. However, it does show that the ancestors of the Jews in the world are the Hebrews that Jesus was part of. The website OUG cited puts out Jew hating propaganda.

Go to a Talmud in an English translation and check for yourself. You will find none of the horrible things you got from the website.