Kevin promised me $900 and now I hear that it is being ruled upon. Is not a promise a promise?
For those small businesses that have strggled in the last month while potential customers have been holding off for their Kevin Money, are they to miss out again on sales for yet another month

Your $900 is on the way Juda, shortly to be followed by a $7000 bill to pay for the deficit spending. Perhaps you should invest the money in a high return medium range stock, something like L/NP stock circa 2013.

I got mine today.

...and it was $950. Suckers.

The author seems to show a lack of understanding, it is not Rudd who stood against it.
spend spend spend.

I am no economist but I saw this on another blog this morning from US

Mr President, there are 50 million people over 50. If you gave them all a million on condition they retire and buy a new car and a house or pay off an existing morgage, it would provide a big stimulas to the economy.

Firstly 50 million new jobs. Secondly would fix the car industry and the housing problem. Better than giving billions to car makers and banks.

OK so what is wrong with that suggestion and would it apply similarly to Aus?

People seem to forget that this money is currently being borrowed from China.We are all going to pay it back via taxes with interest.
Spend some but mostly pay off some debt.We have to start living within our means.

Many of these Res Banks esp.in the US are just printing money via their fractional reserve system.To borrow from the US would be folly.

If they continue on this path ,we will see hyper-inflation consume us.We have to go back to sound money that is not owned by the Reserve Banks of the world,but is backed by real worth eg gold,resources,energy,land etc

Banjo, it seems to me that the first thing that would happen is that the price of everything would go through the roof, making it even harder for those without the hand-out. That sudden a leap in demand would inevitably have that effect, IMO, and I suspect that you'd find a lot of the job's vacated simply wouldn't be refilled either.
On the one hand I can see the pit-falls in these packages, they're no secret, but on the other I can't see a viable alternative, and at least for once the money is going to the lesser serfs, rather than the wealthy again.
It does bother me that the advice Gov's are following, and the "people" they're expecting to get us out of this, are the same ones who got us here in the first place. I have my doubts there.
The one thing that gives me hope is this,.There was nothing intrinsically wrong with the underlying economy overall, makers were making, shifters were shifting, users were using, allowing for all it's tribulations and exceptions of course. It was the money-men, the greedy uber-leutnants of Finance, building a house of cards with non-existent money, and feeding on the real cash, removing it from the grass-roots economy, it was these who buried us when it all fell apart.
I think there's a good chance that this will re-assert itself faster than the "economists" and their ilk can predict, let's face it, their track-record is appalling! If YOU, or I, were as inefficient or wasteful in our jobs, we'd lose our business, or we'd be sacked, let alone getting enormous amounts of money!
It's only a vague conviction on my part, a hope, but I predicted this collapse,(no, I can't prove that, it was only to family, but we all pulled our Super out, sold off shares etc, before it happened), so I reckon it's probably a 60/40% chance I'm right.
No economic training here at all, just life and my brain, such as it is.

What is so funny is that people dont care that our government does not follow the rules of the constitution.

This is not about pape but as i have issued a section 78b to all attorney generals one off the things i challanged was bills.

The commonwealth however did not challange this.

When bills are negated they then require a 3 month waiting period, but really who cares unless they get a fine,bill which of course would be unconstitutional.

from what i understand is the high court was asked if it was a gift, or something else , presumably for tax reasons, simple people cant comprehend

any how i will try to give some background for those missing the bigger picture, see that australia spends billions each year keeping the dollar pegged to the us dollar ,

the last i heard we traded over 10 billion of our dollars in a currency swap for worthless yanki dollars to retain the import advantage of the artificially low aussie dollar, so we can sell [give away] our exports in us dollars

now
see the usa is going to enter hyper inflation soon [because of the privatly owned fed printing ever more dollars to give to the bankers

see that au must deflate too,to keep the parity scam going, but by govt having no debt, it gets more difficult, so govt needed to get some real debt quick smart ,to inflate us closer to us$ parity

see that govt had no choice [the only choice it had was to give the cash to the bank or the people, well we know it decided to give it to the people[who gave it to the bank [ lol ]

while im on the topic see that howhard the blowhard knew this was comming down, [thus his cure was to order the billions of sub standard aircraft the rudd govt hasnt cancelled[for reasons of us dollar parity alone]

the other point worth noting is howhard didnt pay off govt debt [selling telstra did,] noting he insured the public service pension scam and their colluded pension rort to boot, becsause he knows giving cash to the people affects the perfect numbers..

[that are pure fiction at any rate , but thats another story]
two hours work isnt employment its a joke on us all, but so are so many other more serious things , fiat paper isnt legal tender, its a great franchise allowing the scamer to scam ursury

Well Im am no brain surgeon, but if you gave 50 million people 1 millon dollars, that's, $50,000,000,000,000, is that not 50 trillon dollars?

I already have a 'spell checker' helping me, or is that hating me? so perhaps there's a 'math checker' out there for me as well.

Anyone!

rehctub,
Now you happen to point it out, I think you are correct.

I never did the maths, I just assumed the total figure was 50 billion.

The extra zeros do make a difference. Thanks

So Kevin is taking money from my back pocket and putting it into
my front pocket. Duh!

Next year, when the first interest bills are due on that money,
he will want far more back to pay off the debtors.

So I could put it in the bank, to gain interest, ready to
repay the Govt. In that case inflation will have taken half
and Kevin will claim the other half in tax, because the Govt
pretends that inflation does not exist, to make its money.

With economists like that running this country, sorry, but
there is no bloody hope lol.

Maybe the government should just ignore it and just do nothing.

It seems that it's too far gone to be fixed so let's let it all collapse in a heap and replace the whole system with something else.

Let all the businesses shut down and the let all the banks go broke while the rest of the world gets further into debt.

Problem solved.

Plenty of criticism here but no realistic alternatives.

Wobbles there are plenty of realistic alternatives but no one is game to take the hard steps.

Firstly, we have a system where the poeple vote for the governement and if they don't like them they get voted out.

Now that all seems fine except, with almost half the population on hand outs, they have the power to dump any government who dares take the bull by the horns.

As long as we have a system that allows people to sit at home and get paid, plus get to vote, then this country will most certainly crash.

Remember, we are less than one year into bad times and we are already trowing in the preverbial towl and this is following some of the best years in modern times.

The only way this can be fixed is that if the people who pay the bills have the say. Now before all the doo-gooders get up in arms, I know this is comunisum and I know this sucks.

What other choice do we have. We are almost broke.

The raising of the GST is the most likely alternative and that will hurt the poor like nothing else, unless of cause they get some type of repreive which wouldn't surprise me at all.

THE NEXT HANDOUT WILL BE CARBON CREDITS
wanna bet?

YOU HEARD ABOUT THE NEW GLOBAL currency?... geitner ; [pre the g20

well its the carbon credit

brought to you by the same think tank that gave us equity debt swaps and derivitives [and enron etc]via the cfr ,the world bank, imf [who just set in train the sale of 400 tones of gold[no doudt to be bought [lol] with fiat currency printed by the fed reserve ran by the same wrath-child who owns or controls 3/4 of the real assets of the world

as we dither garrot and the greenie g-20 minesters are slipping the neo deal through in the usa

*the new reserve currency* [courtesy of those fraudsters ;derivatives traitors][and environment minesters]are in usa right now sealing the deal

using the fortuinate event of a shelf collapsing in the antarctic , because the earth is going through its current warming[following the cooling cycle ,in the earths elipictal path arround the sun,

we have gone through this warming cooling for ever,
but timming is everything[as we speak the red herring headline is being released, fibre to the node

just watch as the libs [opposition] melts ...as they do a turn arround in record time ,and before you know what went down the derivitives speculators have got their new global carbon credit,[the NEO RESERVE CURRENCY ;see]

that the enron-esq derivitives traitors /speculators will speculate their neo-reserve carbon credit[and you will be tied into paying at whatever the market will bear],!as the web gets censored into web 2

whatever these banker traitors / traders can set the neo con metary global order ...of the car-bon credit currency at to biggest bonus they will

dont say you wernt told, the neo new carbon credit[their latest derivitive scam is nearly a done deal]and you will be paying for the neo con bull [all you [or'the market'can bear]

...aint the free-mark[et] a free for fee for them [not free for-all but fee for them],you just pay your new tax, while the derivitives traitors speculate it into their latest [next]bubble

Wobbles, I remind you that Australia has gone into this, in
relatively extremely good condition. No banks going bust,
no Govt debt. Even now, house values remain very high
in relative terms, unemployment is not serious.

This Govt has had it handed on a plate really. What they
do is up to them, but at the end of the day, for everyone
who wants a job, somebody has to create one and take a risk.

All we have seen so far is a tightening of the labour laws,
so that if farmers want crops picked and its Sunday, double
time will apply. There is talk that they want to apply the
same to the shearing industry, we'll see. Hospitality is
another one.

I'll tell you what all these businesses will do, they will
crunch the numbers and when things don't add up, they will
tell workers to go away, shut down and you can import
even more.

Then everyone will be crying unemployment and blame it
all on the recession.

Flexible labour laws are critical to a healthy economy.
If the public does not want them, well pay the price
in higher unemployment. Borrowing money and throwing
it around in panic, is not going to fix it.

We've been through all this before a long time ago,
with Beazley's job creation schemes. Even more Govt
debt, ever higher interest payments going from the budget
to finance that debt, etc.

It seems to me that people need pain to learn.

Yabby you are spot on in my view, except I think unemployment is about to overtake the environment as the most discussed topic.

Wages, or more so the way they are calculated are just insane considering the world we now live in.

Everyone wants the shops open every day, yet the ones who run them have to pay the price with penilty rates.

My view is that if you want to turn back the clock on wages then shut the shops at noon Saturday.

No shops open on Sundays, no cafes or restaurants open after hours and no extended trading hours as the majors can simply work thier staff on salaries or they have the man power to give time off in lue.

As I often say, they can't have their cake and eat it to!

Looks like your tomatoes can no longer ripen on Sundays hey!

I'm with you all the way.

john howhard screwed the wage earner, his way of 24/7 trading eroded the living standards of the workers, even contracting them into fixed wage equivents [yet look at what he allowed the bosses to do]

yes every wage rise loses jobs [returning to normal trading would cause hyperinflating job loss], the cure is not simple ,but musdt begin with tax reform and ursury reform, howhard took our indexed wage increase and converted it into a cash injection to the stock market [our super now much deminished] helped over inflate the stock market..helped over inflate the ritch rat cats that get their bonus

its time govt returned to being a service not a pimp , what right gives super to public service [they have pensions not super]for their public service

[we dont sell public utilities, yet that is the verything our too many levels of govt have been doing, to prop up infastructure spending, they have sold our utilities and now default on paying the intrest on the very public infastructure they 'sold'

there are so many vile bu-sin-ess practices the govts have been doing to serve the money market, where is my stimulous package indeed why do we need stimulous [or indeed ongoing growth] because if your staying the same your going backwards

if your not serving the public weal ,your serving the systemised cashing in of the elites of the wealth of the poor and every asset they built[where do we stop?

or better where to start,[income isnt wages,stop paying wage tax]stop paying ursury on fiat dollars, the banks dont have your mortgauge papers[they securitised them,and were turned into securities, they can produce the very debt instrument they claim ursury on , ask for the origonal loan documents..[que warrento]by what right, this goes for govt too

OUG
I don't know your background however mine is retail for the past 30 odd years, 20 of which I have been self employed in QLD.

We saw the introduction of 7 day trading around 2001-02 from memory, then we saw the introduction of more fexible working conditions which meant that small business was able to compete with big business and small cafes and restaruants were able to trade without charging a surcharge for sundays.

This underpaying is just crap. Anyone who is good at what they do WILL NEVER work for less than they are worth, esspecially over the past decade when unemployment was so low.

Now we have a governement who wants to tighten up employment again without reducing trading hours.

We will either see a lot a closures, many jobs lost or surcharges for dinning out on sundays. Or a combination of all three. Just you wait and see what happens.

Say goodby to overtime, bonuses and above award conditions. Welcome to the controlled world of unionisum.

OUG
I think you will find it that the decision to trade longer hours was a state by atate decison.

7 day trading in QLD was again rejected back in the arly 90's then Peter Beaty decided that he was not happy with the decison of the commision and over ruled them. This is why we now have 7 day trading in QLD.

People go to work and earn money. Just because the shops are open longer only benefits the shopper as they get to choose when to shop. They have no extra money to spend yet it costs small business with extra wages and costs. Did you know that if we trade past 4.30 pm on weekdays, except thursdays, then I have to pay additional rent. Same applies on Sundays.

It stands to reason that if 25% of shopperts choose to shop after hours, then small traders have to be open or they will loose the opportunity to sell to those 25%ers. This means additional costs and less profits.

Extended hours have made woolworths and coles into late night convenient stores and hurt the small traders who relied on after hours trade.

All the majors did was cut back on their night fill staff and started filling shelves earlier. That's fact!

rehub quote>>..if we trade past 4.30 pm on weekdays..then I have to pay additional rent.Same applies on Sundays.>>

i will admit to being out of retail for over 20 years,and can see logic in saying wages increase,but really..rent going up simply by staying open,..well i just never heard of the concept[and after leaving retail i did real-estate for a year]

likewise i coulld understand increase in wage/electricity but again the incongruety of increased rent'sounds'right out there[like the daylight saving debate fading the curtains]..

i would lol but hey ...you know what you know ..so i will try hard to believe you say what you mean

shoppers dont shop at small buisness[ie are more likely to shop at large shopping centers after dark]so the 24/7 shopping thing was to serve big buisness intrests

quote]>>Anyone who is good at what they do WILL NEVER work for less than they are worth..when unemployment was so low.<<

mate tell that to the university graduates serving tables,howhard wanted the serfs tied to contracted 5 year terms,not indexed[that was pure supremist boss/exploiting the worker;extortion]and krudd hasnt cancelled them con-tracts,yet you say the following absurdity

>>Now we have a governement who wants to tighten up employment again without reducing trading hours.<<far as i can tell no-one has put up the topic[got a link?]

>>We will either see a lot a closures,many jobs lost or surcharges for dinning out on sundays>>>..

some proof please,..most are still on contracted terms[2 million of em]all they get is reduced hours,i would like to see those con-tracted into unfair terms sue howhard,the lobby and big buisness,

but..howhards unfair/system remains largly untouched by krudd,and the workers under unfair/contract..[no severance.holiday/sickness pay or overtime rates][and as for a fair-wage increase[well thats just not possable now is it?]

[lets not get into maternity pay]or bailing out defaulting big buisness simply shutting shop after spending the workers wages/holdaypay etc,there is good and bad but by and large the evil is done TO the worker,even my son whines to me about paying double time to his staff,..mate they earn it..[or you want to cancel public/holidays as well?

While I have some sympathy with the small business sector, their concerns and hard work are real enough, often for a poor return overall, I feel that those here are showing they’ve been sucked in, to the same outlook and approach pushed by big-business, and we can all see where that has brought us.
The whole “business model” has been corrupted. Credit, continuous profit “growth”, the de-personalisation of everyone, staff and customers alike, all have lead to what we now have. It may well be symptomatic of our whole culture nowadays, but unless we do something about it, there will always be conflict.
Wage earners, the workers, are the ones who ARE the business, they make it go. They strive to make a home etc in this world, and deserve a decent return for their labours, whether it be digging a hole, or sitting in an office somewhere pushing buttons.
As it stands, few have this, and we can all see where the money has gone, to people who tell us what those here are telling us.
Blame the Banks, blame the Yanks, blame the general social laziness of us all, but we must take responsibility, for what we have, and for what we believe we should have.
How to achieve this? Bluntly, I don’t know, but discussing it can’t hurt, it’s a start

OUG, yes you are right, I pay additional for trading after hours but I called it rent to make it simple.

Right here and now we still have some flexability in certain areas of work, esspecially hospitality, however that looks like it will change when the new IR laws are introduced, shortly, I beleive.

Resaurants and cafes already exhuab the GST and now they face additional wages. Public holidays I have no problem with, but Sundays are an issue. Remember, they are currently on a wage that has been negotiated to take into account Saturdays, Sundays and late nights. The base hourly rate is higher than if they were to work a normal 9-5 week.

Now we have a governement who wants to

Where did I say HAS!

me about paying double time to his staff,..mate they earn it..[
So you say they earn it. So where does the business owner, the one who puts his life on the line every day earn it.

Perhaps we should have a law that EVERYONE in business has to charge additional prices after hours, sundays and public holidays. At least then the business owner is not footing the bill for additional wages.

As for what I call 'over educated bar staff', the vast magority of these are uni students that are studying and take these part time jobs to help off-set their hex debt. Another joke, we can pay a single mother to have a child (often for the wrong reasons) yet we charge our most presious assetts, our children, for a decent education. One that will benefit our comunity. Bloody welfare, it's just a joke everywhere you look.

I think that ALL OVERTIME should be paid at normal rates with zero tax and PH at 1.5 times with zero tax. This way the worker wins and so does the business owner. If the government can't be contented with normal taxes raised from the 38 hr week, along with GST, then so be it. Trim welfare, make them earn it.

I'm still waiting to be stimulated, but now doubt I will be. Part-time casualised workers (attention Mr Rudd, no other options), who receive so little that the tax paid over the financial year is returned in full apparently will not be included in the 'stimulus package'. Are not these people as desperately in need as all other low income earners such as pensioners, carers and students? I strongly resent being 'left out', and what about the unemployed? This would also have to be a group most in need.

Cancer1, I don't know much about the stimulus package, I don't even know if I will get one but as for the unemployed, they got one leading up to Xmas and I can tell you some of my staff were livered when they found out as they missed out.

So I guess it may be a case of what goes around comes around.

AS for the ones in most need, I would suggest that many employers are either breaking even or loosing money after their funding costs and running costs, so let's not forghet them hey, after all, they are the ones who put their kahoonas one the line every day to employ people.

Back to the stimulus, I believe it is based on the amount of tax you paid in the previous year. Now if this is correct then I would suggest that this is one the Krud has got right.

As for part time casual, well I know someone (un-skilled) who landed a job at arnots biscuits and is on $24.50 per hour base rate. UN-SKILLED!

Apparently there is plent of work there as well, that's in the brisbane plant.

There is also a web site where you can check your eligabillity. May be worth a look hey!

in the news today is the ultimate stymulous pakage, 5000 custumers of cleanmaid get cleaned out by the made clean,corperation cleaning us out, seems the cleaning maid scamed them, but think if your cleaning maid cleaned you out, she [or he?]would get jail time

but when a corperate cleaning maid made off with your cash nothing,5000 people should have a claim against their maid.. but no ,..the maid servant nor the clean[getaway made] corperation dont get even charged.;nor investiogated, cause crimes down, [its now wholsale..lol].corp bulg fraud, aint that the ultimatye cleaning out; stymy-all-of-us pack-age?

seems there is the criminal crime stimulous ..and the stimy all of us revenue raising stymy,.. gee next you hear the leaders going os for a trade stimulous [pay off ] pakage for a buisness well served by the govt holding us down for the corperates to screw us, out of our own stymyulous pak-age

oh and electricity and water is going up
we need another simulous, just to pay the neo[new]bills

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aint live time cenure[by our govt great mate lol

Cancer1,

My understanding is that if your are not a taxpayer, you receive nothing. It is unconstitutional for the Givernment to give a a gift. So, they made it a tax rebate.

In the US, people without income in the last taxation year -I am told by a reliable Texan friend- will receive a credit against their next payment due. I don't think our package has the tax credit.

rehctub,

If other small businesses didn't pay their workers penalty rates, you would have have fewer customers. Likewise, the money you pay are staff is spent in other small businesses.

When someone, your employee, works on a Friday night or a Sunday, they need to make an economic decision too. It is costing them the opportunty to have leisure. If it serves you to pay an employee under their opportunity cost for working overtime, is not reasonable for a major chain to sell products below your cost of supply?

You freely chose to be an employer. Presumably, you could become an employee, if you wish, including an employee working overtime.

p.s. I'm an academic. I once thought about buying a Dymocks franchise, but, at the time, chose to teach freelance thoughout Asia instead.

Oliver
What are you on about. I can't for the life of me see what any of this dribble has to do with this toppic.

Mind you though, this must be a record for the longest a thread has gone before someone has emptied their ball bag of unwanted tish!

Oliver, you said; If other small businesses didn't pay their workers penalty rates, you would have have fewer customers.

We have no more customers today than we had 20 years ago, it's just that with so many hours to shop WITH NO EXTRA MONEY to spend, many retail businesses have to trade longer for the same net result.

Have a good look around you and you will see that the freindly small business is dying. Why, because the longer hours has taken its toll and handed a monopoly to the big boys.

Just imagine how busy the local convenience store would be if the majors closed at 5.30pm weekdays and didn't trade sundays.

Remember, these are people just like you and I. Their kids go to our schools and they support their local communities, not the shareholders, and we have abondoned them in droves.

Likewise, the money you pay are staff is spent in other small businesses. Crap, reffer to the above.

Unless you are involved in retail in todays market you simply would not have a clue what you are on about.

You are all about to witness a melt down once these stimulus packages run out, just you wait and see. Handing money out is not going to create one long term job and with our manufacturing industries on their knees, we are in for one hell of a shock. But don't worry, the black swann just says, "don't wory, once we return to growth we can then pay the bill back"

What a load! Take a good look at the third world standard of living, it may well become a way of life for many once these fools are finnished.

Never seen a country ruined so quickly hey!

Ok its related to what Rehctub is saying, but Robert Gottliebsen
wrote an interesting article about a company which had to downsize,
due to less orders from the MV industry. Termination payments would
have cost them two million$, so as they could not afford that,
rather then half the jobs being lost, the whole company has now
closed down. Everyone loses.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Rudds-job-destroyer-pd20090423-RCRHL?OpenDocument&src=sph

.