Hey guys,
The topic is about abortion aid to third world countries. It is not about religion, the DLP, evolution, or a raped 9 year old. These are diversions.

It is about abortion is it our responsibility to fund? Will it improve womens health in third world conditions? I would have thought better food and sanitation would do more for womens health than aborting their pregnancies.

Take China with their one child policy is doing more damage to women's mental health because their Government enforce abortion. Do these women want abortion? Similarly will Governments in third world enforce abortions. Do we aid Governments that violate human rights. Abortionists around the World believe we are overpopulated and it will be up to Governments to enforce abortions.

Abortion also is not a safe sex solution- it is a health hazard.

Dear Otonoko,

Muslims fought back against the invading Crusaders who also massacred Orthodox Christians, pagans and Jews in Europe far away from Palestine.

Many Christians try to deny the Christianity of the Holocaust and make Hitler a pagan. Hitler’s anti-Semitism comes from his Christian background.

Hitler became an altar boy, and was confirmed as a "soldier of Christ" in the Catholic Church. He was steeped in its liturgy, which contained the words, "perfidious Jew" which was not removed until 1961.

Hatred of Jews was the norm of the two major religions of Germany, Catholicism and Lutheranism. Hitler greatly admired Martin Luther, who openly hated the Jews. Luther condemned the Catholic Church for its pretensions and corruption, but he supported the centuries of papal pogroms against the Jews. Luther said, "The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows seven times higher than ordinary thieves," and "We ought to take revenge on the Jews and kill them." "Ungodly wretches" he calls the Jews in his widely read Table Talk.

Hitler seeking power, wrote in Mein Kampf. "... I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work.”

Hitler informed General Gerhart Engel: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." The Catholic church banned great literature, but Mein Kampf never appeared on the Index of Forbidden Books.

The church neither excommunicated nor even condemned him. Popes, in fact, gave Hitler and his fascist friends Franco and Mussolini, power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy.

Some Christians admit Christian responsibility. Lutheran Mother Basilea Schlink founded the Evangelical Sisterhood of Mary in 1947 in repentance for Christian acts.

From their website on http://www.kanaan.org/international/israel/israel7.htm

Time and again the Jewish people have suffered at the hands of Christians. They have been humiliated, deprived of their rights, accused of murdering God and blamed for every imaginable calamity. During the Crusades, the Inquisition, the pogroms and, most horrific of all, the Holocaust, millions of Jews have suffered flagrant injustice.

Philo wrote: I would have thought better food and sanitation would do more for womens health than aborting their pregnancies.

Dear Philo,

I doesn't have one or the other. Women get worn out through having many children. Having reasonable size families along with adequate food and housing both contribute to health.

Philo wrote: Take China with their one child policy is doing more damage to women's mental health because their Government enforce abortion.

Dear Philo,

I support a woman's right to choose whether she will bear a child or not. The Chinese policy does not concern itself with a woman's right to choose. Abortion is a crude tool to control overpopulation. Better ways are free access to contraception, woman's education and adequate medical care so a woman doesn't have many children hoping one will survive.

Philo wrote: Abortion also is not a safe sex solution- it is a health hazard.

Dear Philo,

I think giving birth is a greater danger to woman's health then an abortion under adequate medical supervision.

*Abortionists around the World believe we are overpopulated and it will be up to Governments to enforce abortions. *

Nonsense Philo. What most pro choice people believe is much what
I believe, ie that women should be given a choice as to how many
kids they want to have. If all kids were loved and wanted, there
would be alot less suffering.

Abortion is only one small part of the story. Its about improving
family planning overall, for third world women, so that they have
choices, like Western women do.

China is a whole different story once again. The Chinese realised
that they had gotten to the point where they simply had too many
people, which if it went on, was just not sustainable.

Now if you think its a good idea to keep popping out babies until
the whole thing crashes and you land up with genocide, like in Rwanda,
well then you will learn the hard way.

So the question arises, why force women to have children that they
don't want, due to lack of proper family planning services. Its
pointless sending ever more boatloads of food, which results
in ever more babies that need feeding and even more boatloads of
food.

Even you would have to concede that the days of everyone having
8 kids, generation after generation, at some point have to end.

david f,
You speak nonsense. I come from a family of seven siblings, and my parents came from large families. I have 12 families of cousins one with 12 children. My mother had good health all her life and died suddenly at 82. My auntie who had 12 children died at 96 and had good health all her life. They worked hard to provide for their children and had purpose to live to see their great grandchildre. Small families do in not in any way enhance a womans long term health prospects. Healthy food, exercise, hope and a happy disposition goes a long way to good long term health.

Philo wrote: David F, you speak nonsense….. Small families do in not in any way enhance a womans long term health prospects. Healthy food, exercise, hope and a happy disposition goes a long way to good long term health.

Dear Philo,

I don't speak nonsense. You come from a large family, and your relatives come from large families where the women were apparently content to have such families. That does not mean some women don't get worn out from child-bearing. My wife was a visiting nurse 50 years ago. Women worn out from child-bearing begged her for contraceptive advice. She gave such advice on request and was fired because of it.

You have provided what is called anecdotal evidence. You have cited a case where a large family did not harm a woman's health and then generalised about all large families. It is not a reasonable generalisation.

From http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/ib_3-02.html

“The risks associated with adolescent childbearing are apparent when the maternal mortality ratios (which represent the number of women who die from pregnancy-related causes for every 100,000 live births) of different age-groups are compared. In Nepal, for example, the maternal mortality ratio among teenage mothers is almost double that of women giving birth in their early 20s.

Childbearing is even more dangerous for women in their late 30s and 40s, many of whom suffer from obstetric problems associated with earlier births or from having had several children at closely spaced intervals. In Nepal, the maternal mortality ratio among 35-39-year-old women is about three times that for women in their 20s and early 30s. In Malawi and Zimbabwe, the ratio for women 30-39 is about twice as high as the ratio among women under 30.

As these statistics make clear, maternal mortality would drop substantially if women in developing countries were able to limit childbearing to their 20s and early 30s.”

Having a large family means that a woman’s child-bearing years are extended and her risk of obstetric problems and maternal mortality is greater.