The secular state with separation of religion and state curbed the Christian propensity for violence. Since the Catholic Church can no longer use the tools of its bloody Inquisition such as the thumb screw, the rack and the other instruments of torture there is no way it can force others to accept its nonsense.

The idea that sin is transferable and that Jesus or any other entity can take one's sins upon himself is nonsense. One is simply responsible for one's sins. No one else can relieve you of it.

Buddhism, Judaism and Islam are all superior to and more reasonable than Christianity. They all emphasize the relationship of humans with each other more than a mystical concept of an entity which can take on someone else's sins. Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25. Osiris was born on the 361st day of the year. According to Plutarch his body was placed in a box but came again to life. Several other deities such as Adonis, Tammuz and Attis had life stories similar to Jesus. The Indian Krishna was born of a virgin (Davaki), and his birth was announced by a star. The Christian Eucharist corresponds to totemic sacraments in paganism. The Saviour God and the myth of the Golden Age before the Fall are pagan concepts. Paganism still lives on being found within Christianity. Manichaeism was a religion that once spread from Spain to China. Although it lasted 1,500 years to the eighteenth century it is all but forgotten. Perhaps by the year 2,100 Christianity will be a forgotten curiosity like Manichaeism. There might not be a year 2,100 AD as the calendar might date from a more significant event than the birth of the mythical Jesus. It might be superseded by the year 195 AE, 195 years after Einstein came out with the scientific papers that revolutionized physics.

Don't forget them thar witches david f.

Another weird anomaly that the superstitious haven't corrected.

Webby, I'm going to make this the last post because I can see I'm banging my head against a wall, but I should make the point that all the sciences are made up of theories. The nature of gravity is a theory. Intra-Molecular science is a theory.

I'm glad you added 'almost' to the creation science theories. We're both agreed then that that stuff is insane.

But the bible makes no mention of dinosaurs, yet we find their bones. Strange huh? Wouldn't the bible have mentioned at some point, that god made these massive creatures that walked the earth? Hmm?

You also say why shouldn't I believe the church exists because history etc etc etc.

It still exists today. I can see it. Therefore, it exists. You are typing to me, Webby, therefore you exist. It doesn't make you right.

As history develops it becomes less reliable. What happened a few days ago is pretty reliable. Recorded history 10 years ago is pretty reliable. 100 years ago is less reliable. 2000 years ago is damn difficult to pin down.

Historians rely on multiple texts to confirm authenticity. They also don't rely on whacky 'god' theories. My point all along has been that there are other texts and histories just as authentic as your biblical one. In fact, the Chinese for example, were bopping along quite happily, unaffected by all this religious bloodshed in the Roman empire that marked the birth of Christianity. They had their own religion and didn't give two hoots about your superstitions.

Nevertheless, I rather suspect that given your 'error' comment you're not open to evaluating the flaws in your belief system, so I'll bid you adieu and move on to something more productive.

I should have guessed that with boaz and gibo gone that another would step forward to fill the gap... partly my fault for feeding it.

Evolution is unproven and becomes more suspect by the day.No point in bringing up gravity and molecular science because evolution just doesn't rate along side them.

Disavow yourself of the thinking that says you must somehow find dinosaurs in the Bible. That is somehting that many Protestant fundamentalists reach for. It doesn't count because the Catholic Church doesn't use the Bible that way. The Bible, through Catholic Church teaching tells us how to get to Heaven ; not how the Heavens go. The Bibel is not a Science book nor a proff text for science. The Bible is the story of the history of salvation; from the spiritual yearnings and the nature of mankind leading up to the fulfilment in Christ. If you wish to abuse yourself then go to the 'Reformation' theologies. But if you prefer the truth go to the Catholic Church; and directly to her magisterial teachings. Try and stay clear of Geraldine Doogue's Compass and the old ABC Religion Report as you will only learn dissent from those sources.

There are propoganda reports of governments and corporations over the alst few days and weeks that are false. So to compare the recent and the new with truth; then to treat older histories with les reliability is a false analogy. In BOTH cases whether history be old or recent we go to sources and source methodologies and primary sources.
The Catholic Church relies not on "whacky 'god' theories" or myths. It relies on multiple witnesses along with written records not just Scriptures. In fact its Scriptures were verified by the early Church throughout the various Catholic communities before deciding on the Canon or list of Scriptures.
The Chinese were not as you say " bopping along quite happily, unaffected by all this religious bloodshed in the Roman empire". The average Chinese were subjected to much hardship and worse under many dynasties of Emperors.
Your closing lines of "moving on to somehting more productive" is a poor attempt at snobbery and condescension typical of many secularised vain Australians. You are not unique in that regard.

Dear Turn Right Then Left,

Why on earth would you feign confusion as to which religion to choose? Why would you pick Scientology? You did list it? Why the JW's? etc? Stop playing dumb mate. Why choose any that have broken off from the Catholic Church? Why call Catholic Faith "fundamentalist" and lump it in with all the others who are very different in many cases? The sources of authority of the Catholic Church are totally different fro mthat of the other non Catholic and non Orthodox churches of the East.
As a "rational person" and secualr Leftist you are on the backfoor my friend because like all your mates eg the Brumby Leftie govt of Victoria they defied science by refusing to backburn. As a result hundreds of Aussies died. Also the athiest Lefties on the ABC and SBS were self absorbed straight after the tregedy of the Victorian bushfires by blaming 'cliamte change' for it or trying to flog their architectural firms on how to build fire proof homes to defy raging bushfires infuture. What narcissism and vanity !! For starters the dead do NOT deserve fellow arrogant and vain Australian yuppies lecturing to them in the unrealistic Left-wing twit-city way.
You and your crowd of atheist Lefties, along with the neo liberal corporate 'right' are both irrational; the Left on ideological terms and the Corporate Right on feigned humanitarian terms with an agenda to simply see dollar signs even in tragedy.
Bring on the DLP and good Catholic everywhere; who would never treat fellow Aussies in rural Victorai like you Lefties and Corporate Rightists do.
The DLP has principles and is really the ALP of old( ie in the first 60 yars of its existence arguably the best political Party in the Western World for Christian values and trade union gains for families). The ALP today is 'labor ' in name only, not in NATURE.
You Lefties do not even rate.

Possibly a bit about the founder of the DLP might be of interest.

Bartholomew Augustine "B. A." Santamaria, otherwise 'Bob', (14 August 1915 - 25 February 1998), Australian political activist and journalist, was one of the most influential political figures in 20th century Australian history, though he never held public office or joined a political party. A highly divisive figure, he inspired great devotion from his followers and intense hatred from his enemies. He regarded his own career as a failure, but on his death was widely praised for his lifelong opposition to Communism. Santamaria was the unofficial leader and guiding influence of the Democratic Labor Party and led its split from the Australia Labor Party.

Santamaria went to Melbourne University where he graduated in Arts/Law. His MA thesis was titled "Italy changes shirts: the origins of Italian fascism." He was a political activist from an early age, becoming a leading Catholic student activist and speaking in support of Franco's forces in the Spanish Civil War. He also was a strong supporter and wrote about Mussolini's regime in Italy, but denied that he had ever been a supporter of fascism.

He supported Mussolini and Franco but denied he supported fascism!

Dear Webby,

There’s a saying in law. If the law supports your case, appeal to the law. If the facts support your case, appeal to the facts. If neither supports your case, pound on the table. Calling names like atheistic Lefty because others don’t support your primitive superstitions is pounding on the table.

By splitting the Labor Party Santamaria who claimed to be for the workers kept the Libs in power.

The DLP has a preoccupation with what goes on below the waist opposing abortion and same-sex marriage.

Same-sex marriage can encourage stable relationships among homosexuals and thereby reduce homosexual promiscuity and the spread of disease. It is a public health measure.

Access to abortion is also a public health measure. Women do not have to resort to the coat hangar or unsafe back alley abortionists. It supports the rights of women who are already born.

as ever in abortion debates I'm between two rocks. There is no question that abortion is a brutal form of contraception, and bloody.

Can those who have bred argue about the non-validity of the foetus as a lifeform tell me that they did not experience the joy of expectant parenthood when finding out that they or their partners were carrying a few extra cells?

Not a cut and dried argument, and definitely not a religious question for most of us. More often its an economic or (yuk) a lifestle question.

Webby, in the words of Marge Simpson "one person can make a difference, but most of the time they shouldn't".