The way I see it is that Hamas leaders and members should be tried in the Hague as terrorists. Israels leaders and soldiers should be tried in the Hague as war criminals.

Indeed ROB.. well said... ultimately that is my own goal.. to bring any discussion which 'begins' with 'Arabs good...Israel bad'...or.. Israel good....Arabs bad' to the point where people realize just like you...that it becomes a tangled mess of religion, history and politics.... and each side can pick and choose their own starting point to support their view.

That's why I've been so vehement on this thread.. as I sensed that underneath the whitewash of 'objectiveness/I'm not taking sides' by our illustrious and dear Foxiness :) based on past exchanges, there was a definite agenda... in spite of denials.

The best thing is let them sort it out....

I can empathize with the Israeli/Jewish view more than the radical Arab for a couple of reasons.

1/ I am rather deeply immersed in the sense of history from the Old testament, and when I see some name places in Israel today.. my eyes just about mist over with a sense of connection..and I'm not Jewish.

2/ Yesteday there was news story about the Jews of one polish town.. the total was around 60,000 prior to Hitlers 'final solution'...there were only a handful which escaped that 'solution'...

Most of the people in Israel today over the age of 50, would have either lost siblings.. family or know someone who did in that horrible time.

With such memories so close to their hearts.. one is not surprised that when they read things like "The last hour will not come unless the Muslims kill the Jews" in the Hamas Charter (articles of Assodciation)...they see it with a considerably more focused mind than we might.

I'll be honest.. I have less than zero compassion or regard for HAMAS as a political organization. It is nothing more than the Wafen SS revisited to me and with the same objectives.

I believe the Jews will regret that they did not go right to the HAMAS leadership at the hospital bunker..drag them out and execute them 100%
....harsh as that might sound.

yep, there's nothing wrong with not sitting on the fence.

Boaz, I have some influence from my ww2 vet grandfather re giving Israel back to the Jews too.

Also though, it for me (and I loath intellectualising over a war it's prattish of me) if various anti Israeli terrorists groups stopped the constant bombing of Israel, I believe that Israel would not attack back. I wouldn't take my boot of your head if you were just going to get up and start punching me again, not until I was sure I was safe.

I think it is Hamas and Hezbollah who are the ones responsible for their peoples deaths.

Not everyone in the world sees Israel in the same innocent victim way.

Despite initial media lies, it was actually Israel that broke the truce, not Hamas. The town od Sderot that was subsequently "barraged by rockets" in retaliation was formerly Palestinian territory and those rockets actually came from the West Bank - not Gaza.

The whole incident was planned by Israel at least 12 months ago, the response deliberately provoked for local political purposes and timed to coincide with that grey period during the changeover of the US Administration.

The (Jewish) MP from Britain makes some interesting points.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=m9mkRiGbgZg&eurl=http://whatreallyhappened.com/&feature=player_embedded

If 50 year-old siblings of people who endured events events that happened ten years before they were born are somehow traumatised, what then of those children suffering today?

How will this possibly change anything for the better?

Dear Wobbles...nothing quite gets me going as much as posts like yours.

"ROCKETS CAME FROM WEST BANK" .. Evidence? Links?

LOOK at yourself! .. r u a complete dill?

Why in this wide world.. are you trying to tie down blame on Israel by scrutinizing small incidents which seem to fit your own 'deliberately planned' attempt to sanitize a regime which in it's OWN words has declared a GENOCIDAL intent toward Jews and ISrael?

HOW.. in the world....can you ignore CLEARER words than Mein Kampf in the Articles of Association of Hamas which call for, and dedicate to, the complete destruction not just of Israel but of JEWS.

"The last hour will not come unless the Muslims KILL KILL KILL the Jews" (yes..it's only mentioned once,- "kill", but you are so thickheaded and dare I say it 'ignorant' that you simply don't see this.

What is wrong with your thought processes? Are you retarded?

If someone says "I am planning to kill you and your family because I don't like what you stand for, and as soon as I'm strong enough...I'm going to DO it" then..I hurl a few molotiv cocktails at your house.. but none actually destroy you......

ARE YOU so dumb, dull, and deluded that you don't think they are actually planning to DO what they've already promised to do?

Honestly.. you must have some kind of medical condition.. mental illness? some kind of deficiency which might be described as 'Dissociative disorder'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_disorders

Yours is a variation of the symptoms. You simply 'dissociate' the genocide planned by HAMAS from them, and then (for reasons only known to yourself) you do a 'morality inversion' and try to connect these traits to Israel.

This is the BIGGGGGG picture. If you_don't understand it.. please refrain from posting your lame, isolated anecdotes which seek to blame the target rather than the perpetrator.

If you think I'm being overly harsh.. HOW do you understand the significance of "The Muslims must kill the Jews" as contained in the HAMAS articles of association?

Oh wait.. I think I get it.... you ALSO want Israel destoyed?

Boazy, resorting to personal attacks now?

OK let’s get it on.

In the first case, words are somewhat less fatal than WMDs. How then, does this Palestinian Holocaust Memorial event – for some reason ignored by our media – fit in with your hate-filled view of the world?

http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=35355

Unlike you, I haven’t taken sides I’m not saying for a minute that only one side is to blame – just that one side is not completely free of blame.

You are in fact, the one who is entirely blaming the victim, not me.

How can you discriminate between say, Holocaust victims and drowned refugees – both were innocent political victims of their time. You treat one group as martyrs and the other as “in the past, can’t bring them back, time to move on”. Odd?

Selective compassion or selective hatred?

Why is the China/Tibet or Indonesia/ East Timor aggression treated so differently from what’s happening here?

Oh that’s it. They’re Muslims so they must be, by definition, evil! You’re prepared to torture them without trial on this basis alone. I bet you fantasise about your own version of a Final Solution for them.
You can find all the nasty bits of the Koran but conveniently ignore or brush aside all the same parts of the Talmud or the Bible.

I may be a dill but you’re a pathological bigot.

(Continued)