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The Forum > General Discussion > The issue of war crimes in Gaza...

The issue of war crimes in Gaza...

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Remember it was Israel and the US who funded and helped create Hamas in the first place - just like the US who sponsored and maintained Saddam Hussein, the Shah and almost every other despot in the region and later paid the price.

Now after all the post-Iraq-invasion bleating about "sponsoring democracy in the region" as a cure for all that had gone wrong, the legally elected Palestinian government has strayed from the script and now must be removed.

Pericles, don't waste your data allocation. Anybody who seriously sanctions the torture of women and children as an anti-terrorism tool has already clearly nailed his colours to the mast.
Posted by rache, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 12:38:21 PM
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Dear Pericles. (ok..ur off 'ignore' for now)

<<Your point being, I guess, that if it is ok for Muslim children to vilify Jews, it is perfectly ok for a middle-aged Christian to vilify Muslims?>>

We are not talking about vilification here re this Muslim child.

We are speaking about:

1/ CHILD ABUSE. (how can a child that age know about the holocaust? or the meaning of such symbolism to adult Jews, specially those like friends of mine who's parents were gassed and burned?

2/ ILLEGAL HATE SPEECH.... the sign held up by that child. (clearly with the permission/participation of the parent)

Then..you seem to equate this with my references to specific teaching in Islamic holy books..where I can, and have,- shown..that my understanding is no different from major respected scholars of that faith......
Example: Ismael Ibn Kathir is very clear that 9:30 means christian and Jews must be degraded.. in disgrace.. humiliated.. to remind them of their objectionable and sinful beliefs.

But you equate me mentioning THAT, with a child holding up a sign calling for Jews to be GASSED? (By implication of the Swastika)
That is where you become too fuzzy in your thinking to deal with.. hence the *ignore* button.

We just go through this cycle.

I claim "rational argument and facts"

But you just see "rabble rousing cos I knowz it when I seez it"

Kinda thing.

A much better approach is to challenge what I SAY not why you think I say it.

Challenge Ismael Ibn Kathir.. AbuL Ala Maududi... challenge the Quran... the hadith.. see if I am correctly understanding them....

aaaah.. THAT is the way out.

It is not the 'way out' though... to quote from early passages in the Quran which are abrogated by later ones :) aaah..THAT is Kayser Trad, ICV, territory and standard Islamic apologist methodology.

It just happens to be wrong.

ROB P.. ur absolutely right.. war crimes tribunals are a pipe dream for the Middle East.
I could envisage all manner of Arab intervention (including the oil weapon) if "Good" Muslims were treated as war criminals by we "infidels"
Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 1:05:13 PM
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"That Israel are a more healthy country isn't a crime to their neighbors... that they are there isn't a crime, it actually their spiritual land and they were gifted it back after ww2... it is their Mabo."

meredith,

This is a fair comment. However, it's also fair to say that the land the Palestinians are on is their spiritual land also.

The big problem here is the disparity in size, power and intellectual development between the two sides which are being crammed together into a piece of land the size of a sardine tin, figuratively speaking.

Apparently Henry Kissinger warned the US Administration about 4 decades ago that putting a highly developed state like Israel into the same small strip of land along with millions of other very differently-minded Arabs was a recipe for future problems. He turned out to be right.
Posted by RobP, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 1:58:49 PM
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As suspected Boaz, just your usual obfuscation.

>>We are not talking about vilification here re this Muslim child. We are speaking about: 1/ CHILD ABUSE... 2/ ILLEGAL HATE SPEECH...<<

I'll ignore your traditional red herring - child abuse is not even particularly convincing, though - and wish you well with your bid to prosecute the placard itself. It will be an interesting free speech/hate speech test.

But your attempt to make some kind of distinction between blatantly inflammatory placards on the one hand and blatantly inflammatory pseudo-intellectualizing about bloody surah bloody nine (not again!) on the other, is an utter furphy.

>>you equate me mentioning THAT, with a child holding up a sign calling for Jews to be GASSED? (By implication of the Swastika)<<

Yes, Boaz, I do.

Vilification does not start and end with nasty placards.

Mosley proved that. Here he is, rousing his own particular rabble...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zD5Xce2o98&NR=1

Mosley's message was essentially that Jews and other foreigners were despoiling the Britain that he knew and loved. Much like the Boaz message, "learn to be just like me, or go back where you came from".

Your intention, now as always, is to fire up fear and loathing against Muslims. If you are unable to see that your approach is equally as culpable as a placard-waving toddler, then I feel very sorry for you.
Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 2:16:03 PM
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Dear_Perilous :) ur back on *ignore* for a while now.. that was plain silly.

MARXIST Norwegian DOCTOR FEEDS ANTI SEMITISM ABOUT GAZA.

http://www.kabobfest.com/2009/01/mads-gilbert-norwegian-doctor-in-gaza.html

Mads Gilbert.. radical marxist made this statement on WORLD Tv...

"This is not a conflict against an army...this is an ALL OUT WAR against the CIVILIAN population of Gaza"

Now.. ALL OUT is ludicrous. If Israel wanted to have an ALL out war..there would be nothing of Gaza left. HE LIED!

Not only that..HE LIED TO THE WORLD!

More..his lie is MONSTROUS in it's dimensions.

More..his LIE has had a devasating effect with many Muslims calling for Jews to be sent back to the ovens and death camps.. USA.. UK.. Australia..

Any such person..OR the PARENT of such a person if they are with them, should be DEPORTED forthwith. (to Gaza)

He also claims that out of all the wounded and killed..he saw ONE person of a Military type.

How many people in the West have been influenced by this nominally high credibility 'Compassionate Western Doctor' helping the 'poor victims in Gaza'?

WHERE THE HELL was this doctor when rockets were being hurled at the towns of Israel?

I just hope that all viewers of the events in Gaza will take stock of who is feeing them information and what their motive might be.

How much of the call for WAR CRIMES INVESTIGATIONS are being orchestrated and promoted by the evil likes of mad Marxist Dr Mads Gilbert and his henchmen thugs?

Foxy.. were you sucked in by that kind of coverage? I have a feeling you were.

ROB P... it only became the 'spiritual' land of the Arabs after 637 when the Caliph invaded :) I think those who were the victims of that invasion have a moral right to address it..even in 1948.

"TALKING POINT" if the Arabs consider the children of refugees born AFTER the exile to be equally refugees.. then the Jews have as much right to regard present day descendants of previous exiles as refugees to be resettled in their ancestral land. The ancestral land of the Arabs is Arabia not Israel.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 3:44:19 PM
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BOAZ,

All I can say about Arab/Jew relations over the past few thousand years is that it is a Pandora's Box, a veritable Russian dolls scenario of layers within layers within layers. One's viewpoint can be coloured by who did what to whom in a particular historical context without necessarily being alive to what the causative historical precedents might have been. This can lead to a certain one-sidedness in analysis that could quite easily be right in one sense but quite wrong in another. On top of that, many people, me included at times, use events to make commentary on how I see and would do things, not how they are for the people concerned.

I'm pretty sure about one thing though: every action has an equal an opposite reaction, the only variables being when the threads of karma snap back their originators and how. But I'm no historical scholar and am not good enough to untangle and make sense of the mess (I wonder if anyone is?). I'll leave that to life to play out.
Posted by RobP, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 8:07:32 PM
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