Foxy

What are you doing?

First examinator and now Col (and goodness knows who else!) How many more of my serious debating partners and opponents are you going to distract with your lethal feminine charm? :)

On second thoughts, if you can distract Col's razor sharp mind for a bit longer I might have half a chance of extricating myself from the hole I dug a few posts back!

Only joking, Col, don't pride yourself, just yet!

Col

"Maybe you can show where I have put the “boot in” to alcoholics and binge drinkers gratuitously elsewhere (ie beyond a thread ascribed to that topic)."

When I said 'you're constantly putting the boot in to alcoholics and binge-drinkers', I was referring, as you well know, to THIS thread.

Though, now that you've mentioned other threads, it is a well worn theme of yours to sink the boot into the victim. A recent example is the NINJA home loans debacle, where you straight away blamed the borrowers who'd been conned, not the lenders who'd done the conning. It's a very predictable pattern with you, Col. Whether it's poverty, crime or addiction, your first instinct is always to blame the victim.

Of course you won't even acknowledge them as 'victims'. To you, they're merely individuals who were stupid enough to make bad 'choices'.

Col (cont)

I hate wasting my time like this, but just to prove I was quite within my rights to use the term 'constantly', I will list the examples of you 'sinking the boot' into the victims in this debate, i.e. the people who have a problem controlling their alcohol consumption.

"But the 'problem' is limited to those individuals who lack the restraint and self control to resist binge drinking."

"Maybe you can identify how someone, exercising their sovereign right to be a complete moron, is a 'victim'?"

"... the “Victims” are not the drunken bums but the families of the drunken bums ..."

"... with people who ignore all responsibility for self control."

"Maybe you defend them because the victims of their own incompetence are the sort of dullards who end up paying your union fees and whose votes put your labor party into office?"

"... the ‘victims’ are the folk who end up being harmed due to the violent excesses brought about by the irresponsible idiots who insist upon exercising their 'entitlement' to indulge in substance abuse."

Six examples, in as many posts, of you passing derogatory judgement on people with alcohol issues, reasonable justification for using the term 'constantly' I would have thought.

If your mother had an alcohol problem (of course I know she wouldn't, but just imagine if you can that she did) would you make any of the above statements in her presence? No you wouldn’t, because they are ‘sinking the boot’. You wouldn’t do it to your own mother, but you’ll happily do it to people whose circumstances you know nothing about.

That’s why I said you were speaking ‘from a position of ignorance’. You’re ignorant of their circumstances. That’s not, as you claim, ‘sinking the boot’. It’s stating fact.

Dear Bronwyn,

What am I doing?

Having a bit of lighthearted fun...

Although, I'm not sure about my
'lethal feminine charms.' If someone
really made a move on me - you wouldn't
see me for dust.

I'm a Leo, a red-head, a hard worker,
a wife, a mother, a hazel-eyed dreamer,
who probably posts far too often on OLO.
However, deep-down, I adore examinator,
he's wonderful (sigh).
I think CJ'S great, and I find
Col quite a challenge.

But you, Dear Lady, like Fractelle, are a
totally Class Act!

Now to get back to the subject of this thread.
Part of the problem with alcohol is that it is
so publicly used in the most respectable circles,
and marketed and advertised in such a powerful way.
Socially, its acceptable mainly because it is a
traditional "drug," well entrenched in our culture.

This adds to the problem of trying to teach someone
that they should give it up. You're right Brony,
we as a society should take the responsibility for
what we have created and find ways to alleviate
this problem.

Examinator “Condescension isn't in my nature.”

Well for it not to be in your nature, you do a very convincing impression of it.

Let us consider the words of Shakespeare.

Mark Anthony speech following the death of Julius Caesar

“And Brutus is an honourable man”

Now simply substitute ‘Brutus’ with ‘Examinator’ and “honourable” with “not a condescending” then follow the rest of the speech and you will understand what I am getting at.

Bronwyn “I was referring, as you well know, to THIS thread.”

It would have been far more convincing an effort on your part, if you had actually quoted me directly or at least referenced the threads you talk of, simply by their names and the date of commencement.

Until then, your criticism sound more like the baying wails of a lonely critter crying out from a hilltop for someone or something to acknowledge its very existence.

“Of course you won't even acknowledge them as 'victims'. To you, they're merely individuals who were stupid enough to make bad 'choices'.”

We all make bad choices, I have made some doozies but – I am not a’ victim’ and from reading my threads you will find I have never, ever allude to anything which could possibly describe me as such.
I carry the consequences and burdens I have acquired from my mistakes without complaint because they are the product of my choices and scars which mark the experiences of life and sources of personal growth which, among other things, makes life worth living.

And from that perspective, I make no distinction between me and every other individual on the face of the planet.

It could almost be described as some egalitarian principle (and I am not quoting from anyone else, to the best of my knowledge)–

“we are all equally entitled to suffer the disadvantages of our own stupidity , although we have no right to inflict those disadvantages upon others or feel entitled to any special dispensation for them.”

So, I thinking of you as I quote from Bill the Bard

“Methinks the lady doth protest too much"

Foxy…
“Having a bit of lighthearted fun...”
OLO is not a place where no one should ever take themselves too seriously

“we as a society should take the responsibility for
what we have created and find ways to alleviate
this problem”

My personal belief is: the only way to ‘alleviate’ that and many other social problems, not the product of abject poverty, in the long term, is to expect greater personal responsibility from every one for their actions and I endeavour to start with myself.

AA, Al Anon and the like are priceless activities devoted to mopping up the blood, and I would remind everyone, AA is populated by those who have previously walked all the way to the end of the path binge drinkers and the like are on at the moment.

However, accepting personal responsibility for the consequences of our actions is what prevents the bleeding in the first place.

It should be on the school curriculum. “Personal Accountability 101”

btw mmmmm I like being an challenge… and I am told do rise to them (oh now whose blushing)…

Dear Col,

Thanks for your advice.

But the problem for us with my nephew is that
he doesn't accept responsiblity for his drinking
because he won't admit that he's got a problem.

His parents and all of the family, have tried
everything within our means to help him see
the problem - and we thought we had succeeded
when our nephew had a health scare (suspected
stomach ulcers), and he was hospitalised.

However with time the emergency passed, and now
he's back to his old habits. He's young, so I hope
as examinator said earlier, he may grow out of it.
He's such a great guy in every other way.