The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > What to do about Teen binge drinking?

What to do about Teen binge drinking?

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. Page 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. 8
  10. All
Binge drinking - like other self destructives excesses - is not really the problem.

It's the symptom of another deeper problem so find out what motivates this behaviour.

On the practical side, perhaps raising the legal drinking age to 21 (or higher) may reduce it but won't eliminate it.

It's also extremely unlikely, given our cultural disposition toward the social consumption of alcohol.
Posted by wobbles, Monday, 19 January 2009 1:04:52 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Col, although in general spirit I agree with you in relation to responsibility, I can't help but feel you have a tendency to go overboard in making your point and end up shooting just past the precise point you wish to make, instead grazing your toe.

Take your recent post - rather comprehensive, until you draw it back to the Labor party.
Honestly, ask yourself a few questions about relevance, and ask whether your point would have been considered more meritorious and less partisan if you'd managed to resist making the last few jibes.
Which is more important? Persuading people, or having a dig at Labor? I guess it's your call, but sometimes I think you make very good points but instead choose to sabotage yourself by opting for a few cheap shots. If you think I'm wrong then by all means, have another shot.
The 'Labor Party' has very little to do with this debate. Frankly, I don't think the Coalition is really all that different. Can you really draw such a significant distinction between modern Labor and the alternative? Why then, do you need to have such a dig at Labor when it's likely to alienate those who might be able to consider your central points?

(Though I should admit I recognise this because occasionally I'm also prone to having a dig at certain mindsets. Particularly when attempting to debate evangelists. Though in my defence I am at least trying to focus my points).
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Monday, 19 January 2009 4:01:55 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Col,
Consider these facts:

US Prohibition/punishments didn't stop or slow down drinking and drinking related problems. History comprehensively shows that deterrents don’t work well. Like locks they help to keep rational/honest people honest. Who amongst us is honest/rational all the time?

Pragmatically I doubt Government’s ability to bring in and enforce markedly tougher punishments.
Your assumption that it's a matter of restraint flies in the face of both reality and science.
• Historically humans seem to have a NEED to experience mind altered state both chemically and psychologically. Therefore it makes more sense to deal with the problem issue collectively instead of blaming the victim.
• Scientifically it is a well accepted fact that many people suffer physical sensitivity towards addiction to substances (genetic). This usually becomes apparent after the event, testing is not yet possible. To then blame them and state (blindly) it’s their fault alone is clearly myopic and counter productive. I suggest you spend some time working with these people to really understand their plight….it’s not black and white as you suggest.
• Medically some people have susceptibility to the same symptoms. This can occur in non drinkers too so how are you going to differentiate. My Aunt died of sclerosis of the liver and kidney failure yet she never drank (Any alcohol) the Drs don’t really know why. She was a struggling farmer’s wife.
• Most people can’t afford the cost of these treatments so the consequences of your attitude is that people would die
• While flawed I don’t see that taxing booze to cover the medical consequences is so bad. If you don’t drink or drink slightly you pay either a little or nothing and vise versa.
The facts (not ideology) dictate that something rationally needs to be done.
PS Tough love on its own is not enough to solve a problem all you do it move the problem from you. There is much more that can be done in concert.

YOU bought into this debate so no derogatary shots please.
Posted by examinator, Monday, 19 January 2009 8:55:43 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi ya Brony
You're right in the sugar content in 'goon' etc was a cynical marketing ploy (to increase and perpetuate profit by attracting a new demographic) too far. (shades of Big tobacco’s amoral behaviour and later deceit).
I remember when ladies’ drinks meant Pimms and dry or Barossa or Porphyry Pearl (ask your Granny)… the latter two were awful muck.(I was very young)

Tragically the feathers have been released on a windy hill. I fear that no amount reducing alcopop sugar will make any real difference now.
This demographic with their level of disposable spending simply buys bottled spirit etc and adds sweeteners to taste now...That horse has bolted.

The recalcitrant attitude in the public regarding DISCRETIONARY drinking as a right is like the pensioner who wrote elsewhere that because of the Alco tax he now can't afford his tipple. The selfishness and logic failure there is palpable ....It's almost Like me complaining that because of Tax I can no longer afford Vintaged Bollinger or Chivas Royal Salute (30yo scotch)....awww poor baby.
Donations appreciated. :-)
Posted by examinator, Monday, 19 January 2009 9:28:21 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
TLTR “grazing your toe” yep, bit of overlap with the 33% wage increase thread

Examinator “US Prohibition/punishments didn't stop or slow down drinking and drinking related problems”

I have not suggested any “prohibition”

As to “punishments”

The justification for punishment which I have applied is not because someone happens to binge drink, I have purposely defined the penalty as a response for an individual’s failure to exercise personal responsibility in public.

My punitive preferences alluded to a monetary penalty,, thus suffering a loss of income means the individual will be less able to afford to indulge their excesses to the degree they would have done before.

When in the privacy of ones’ own home, people should be free to indulge their excesses as much as they want (I suppose so long as they keep the noise down – neighbours should not be disadvantaged)

“blaming the victim.”

I have not blamed the victim, like I said previously, the ‘victims’ are the folk who end up being harmed due to the violent excesses brought about by the irresponsible idiots who insist upon exercising their “entitlement” to indulge in substance abuse.

“My Aunt died”

Abnormal circumstances are no the basis for collective standards, unless we are to assume everyone is abnormal and no one is responsible for anything.

And I thought we were talking about aberrant, not abnormal behavior

“The facts (not ideology) dictate that something rationally needs to be done.”

Enforcing a culture of personal responsibility and accountability, with penalties for shortcomings therein, is a rational response.

“PS Tough love on its own is not enough to solve a problem all you do it move the problem from you. There is much more that can be done in concert.”

Somehow I doubt you have been required to deal with the issue in the practical sense. There are Al Anon meetings in just about every village, town and city in Australia, from the view point of their practical experience, I suggest you go and ask,
“tough love” is a point arrived at after all attempts at “doing things in concert” have failed.
Posted by Col Rouge, Monday, 19 January 2009 9:39:02 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Sniff Sniff Foxy
"I don't wuv you no more"(old song 'little blue man')
I noted that you've been unfaithful to me so now I'm going to sulk and never love again...Ok better now.Fickle aren't I? :-)
I understand the situation you outlined and have seen it several times before it is really quite devistating for the family and friends.
On the good side often it can sort its self out with love and age.
Col is right though the victim needs to take responsibility. Although that is nigh on impossible however.
Stats have shown that not all early drinkers go on to be irresponsible in later life.
Posted by examinator, Monday, 19 January 2009 9:54:11 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. Page 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. 8
  10. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy