"That is my purpose on these threads. To remind people that
reality does not go away,........"

Of course not Yabby dear and Jack the Ripper was such a kindly soul!

Pericles - you know I hold a different view to yours about pets, but... I suspect you'll get about as much sensible argument hers as you do with Boazycrap.

Animal welfare's a religion to some people, and you're amongst the fundies here :)

For the record, I enjoy recreational fishing, have pets and am known to rescue injured birds and assist smelly tortoises cross busy highways.

*Of course not Yabby dear and Jack the Ripper was such a kindly soul!*

Exactly dickie dear, people like you live in some kind of petal
shrouded dream about what he really was. As we can see from
above, you actually believe your own crap :)

So we have the dickies of this world, loudly preaching on OLO about
the world's problems, not even realising that they themselves and
their thinking, are the cause in the first place.

The world has gone from 1.5 billion to 6.5 billion, heading
for 10 billion, because of the dickies of this world.

Each are nurturing and caring, highly hormonal, each raise a
brood of offspring. The cumulative effect of the many dickies
of this world, is exactly what we have now.

Now the dreaming dickies of this world, think that we should go
back to hunting and gathering for a living, forgetting that their
many offspring, all consuming resources, are exactly why there
is a problem in the first place.

Emotions dominating reason, as we can see on this and other
animal welfare threads, is great for Grimm's Fairy Tales, but
it ignores reality, which I constantly point out to you dreamers.

But feel free to shoot the messenger, I really don't care lol.

Yabby, has anyone made a statement that they universally want all farmers to go broke? Your paranoia will soon be right up there with PALE, (everyone on this thread is some sort of dark agent for PETA (if only PALE rated that high enough in anyone's estimation!). The only farmers we criticise are the ones who engage in cruelty (although we do have some issues with the environmental damage you cause). "If the cap fits", as they say ...

As usual, you totally missed the point. The groups I mentioned may encourage a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, see it as their ideal, and those most involved in a meaningful way would most likely follow that ideal. But the benefit of pragmatism points to that ideal not being universally being reached any time soon.

Would you really say that none of those groups has made difference in 25 years? Where have you been? Just by way of example, absolutely nothing would have been done to alleviate the awful suffering of millions of sheep by mulesing every year had not PETA stepped in; at the behest of Animal Liberation. Do you think Trisolfen would have even been dreamed of? Would research be underway to find alternatives to 1080 without the involvement of animal advocates? Would the public know about battery hens, meat chickens and sow stalls? I think not.

Pericles, thanks for that,and you are absolutely right. What you describe as "wobbly ethics" Peter Singer describes as "speciesism". I remain in my own ethical dichotomy; having said that, I would certainly give much thought to what I should do when my dogs "pass on". One reason for that is, by being a guardian (not owner; I see that as a distinction) of dogs basically requires me to be a part of animal slaughter because I cannot bring myself not to feed them what they should have (by-product or not).

Just a slight irony for you. Victoria has just announced a ban on glue-board traps for rodents - but allows the trapping of dogs (and presumably foxes) with steel jawed traps ...

Nicky

Tut tut Yabby - my humble apologies. It had escaped my memory that you in fact favour Ivan Milat - such a gentle soul! And of course you pair have much in common - both stalkers!

Australian research shows that violent criminals, such as Ivan Milat, who commit acts of abuse to animals continue to do so even after they have moved on to humans – indicating the importance of pursuing people guilty of animal cruelty. (Sue Walker WA MLA)

I'll send the fuzz around Yabby. Pack ya bag dear.

Let's know if we can bring you anything while you're cooling off in the clink.

What about some 1080?

Cheerio

PALEIF

"Meredith said
*I find you can be obtuse, very 'in-shop' and all-over-the-shop at times in a way I don't find with the other two.*"

As Meredith has already pointed out to you, these were not her words but mine. You asked me for my views. I used two posts in replying to you and you can't even attribute my words correctly.

What you've just done here is a clear example of what I meant when I said you were 'obtuse' and 'all-over-the-shop'.

Don't bother replying because I won't be.