Voltaire “Col Rouge, Polycarp and Gibo exemplify their ignorance of Palestinian/Israeli politics”

And Voltaire exemplifies his (or her or its) ignorance not only of Col Rouge, Polycarp and Gibo but also of 20th century history.

“want to stump up a charge against me of anti-semitism.”

Far from stump up anything for you, I would not cross the road to relieve myself upon you, even if you were on fire.

If we go back to the 1967 war, when the combined forces of the middle east, including Egypt and Syria conspired to push the Israelis into the sea, we see the clear conquest by Israel, from their position of overwhelming disadvantage, of lands formerly non-Israeli in nature.

The unprovoked attack by the cowardly Arab forces, collectively mustered against Israel, resulted in the formal extinguishment of any right to land title by default.

The land presently occupied by Palestinians is only their because Israel gave it back.

Personally, it is like most things which are “gifted”, they are never properly appreciated by the recipients of the gift.

As for "Terrorism is the war of the poor. War is the terrorism of the rich"

Oh how cute, hardly philosophical though, just a placarded cliché for you to roll off when it suits.

Doubtless you read that somewhere, I suspect you lack the where-with-all to have originated it.

Now you are welcome to have another slap and I will simply counter whatever drivel you care to post...

happy slapping

I would just like to add a bit of extra
information on the Six Day War. I find
it's helpful to have a complete picture,
and not simply a one-sided perspective.

Yes, in June 1967, the Six Day War changed
the face of the Middle East.

In less than a week, Israel trebled the land
under its control, gaining territories
such as the Gaza Strip, West Bank, Sinai and
East Jerusalem.

Despite US acceptance of the war's outcome,
there was concern at the UN, and on 22 November 1967
the Security Council approved Resolution 242, making
it clear that Israel should withdraw from
'territories conquered.' While the resolution was
unanimously passed, it also called for establishment
of defensible borders for all relevant parties
(Israel, Syria, Egypt, Jordan).

To the present day, Israel has insisted that a cessation
of Palestinian 'terrorism' is a pre-requisite for
negotiations. While the international community demands
an end to the occpuation, US support has enabled Israel
to avoid taking concrete steps.

Overnight, Israel became an occupying force with control
over one million Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza.

A British foreign correspondent James Cameron, remarked
with awe, "Zion was not born nineteen years ago with the
birth of the state of Israel, but today, ...the Jewish
nation suddenly translated from David into Goliath."

Menachim Begin, a member of the Stern Gang during Israel's
independence struggle and later prime minister, underlined
what was at stake in 1969:

"If this is Palestine and not the land of Israel, then
you are conquerors and not tillers of the land.
You are invaders. If this is Palestine, then it belongs
to a people who lived here before you came."

He was wise enough to recognise the necessity of
negating Palestinian rights to their own homeland.

cont'd...

I forgot to acknowledge
Antony Loewenstein's book,
"My Israel Question."

As Dr Ilan Pappe, Senior Lecturer
at the University of Haifa, Israel,
and author of 'A History of Modern
Palestine,' states"

"My Israel Question will serve as an
essential guide for those who dare to
criticise Zionist wrongdoing in the past
and Israeli policies in the present,
without being deterred by false allegations
of antisemitism."

Dear_Voltaire....

I'm not historically ignorant..but.... I don't delve into the minutae of day to day incidents..

The flaws in your argument basically are as follows: (this is big picture stuff..not everyday)

Whatever you or anyone says about people being disposessed... it rebounds on us for a start (Australia...Indigenous disposession etc)

Secondly.. it depends a lot on perspective...in particular historical starting point.

If land is stolen from your great great grandparents by a Mafia don who forced your great great grandad to sign over his land at the point of a gun....is it less 'stolen' in your generation? It doesn't matter if someone else has purchased it.. morally it belongs to..YOU as the rightful heir.

I start with Abraham :) (have fun with that) Isaac..and Jacob..the tribes.. the kings..the divided kingdom...the exiles...the return.. the Romans 63bc invasion, 70ad exile of Jews, the Muslim invaders of 637 and subsequent illegal Arab migration since then onto the stolen land.

Now.. if YOU were an Australian Aboriginal, and your mob had been growing in power and wealth over a long period of time, and you found an 'un-named foreign power' which promised to provide serious heavy duty armaments and training...would you not be at least tempted to have a bit of a go at re-taking Australia for your mob?

I can assure you..without a shadow of a doubt, there are MANY Aboriginals in Melbourne who would do just that.

So..back to our story.

Prior to 1948 many exiled Jews BOUGHT land in Palestine. No one invaded...they bought. In 1929 the Arabs heard an untrue rumor that Jews were taking over the Muslim holy places and massacred the Jews of Hebron. (do a wiki on that)

In 1948... some very weary and determined Jews decided "our turn" and made it back to Israel and TOOK it...by force... yep.. just as they had been 'forced' out...and kept out...now..they, by force.. took it back.
But wait..there's more. The extent of the land promised by God was from the Red sea to the Euprhates.. I'd say they are exericising considerable restraint.... wouldn't you?

Dear voltaire,

Starting a thread on the Israel-Palestine conflict,
guarantees an abusive and vitriolic response,
so I Thank You for understanding the importance of
doing so.

There is a price to pay for speaking uncomfortable
truths.

Rational debate is extremely difficult in such
an emotive environment especially when
personal insults become the preferred mode
of communications for many who wish to engage on
this issue.

I hope that this will make you even more determined
to continue to examine the conflict.

All The Best,

I don't really have a position on the appalling situation in Gaza - both sides have behaved abominably and continue to do so. Neither am I able to offer any kind of solution, except to perhaps suggest that if all external funding was somehow able to be cut from both Hamas and Israel, we'd quickly see a reduction in overt hostilities.

But that's about as likely as them all agreeing to convert to Christianity and live happily ever after. Which is why I haven't commented much about the latest travesty.

Having said that, I think that voltaire's perspective is rather more interesting and nuanced than most of what I'm reading. That s/he's attracted the degree of vitriol we've seen thus far from some of OLO's most obviously bigoted idiots can only lend credibility to the argument.