Thanks to all who participated.

Im off for the year.

You have to rest sometime.
Merry Christmas.

Ive updated my blog at

http://whatwillbecomeofaustraliajackburrell.blogspot.com/

I hope soon I will have another entitled china invades australia/does china invade australia.

Hiya mjpb. I believe it was Mr. Dodson who said that where a parent needs to get the upper hand they should make the triumph decisive. As a parent he must have balanced his authoritarian ideas with plenty of warmth and care but I think there is a great risk of people using flogging, for example, as a means to a decisive 'victory'.

Once we set up a power struggle, a child has only two choices - to submit, which is demeaning. Or to choose pride as a way of hanging onto a modicum of self-respect. A sufficiently determined child who believes they have nothing to lose; but perhaps self satisfaction or self respect to gain, can light fires; damage property; run away - basically the sky is the limit. I would guess that many children who are already instigators of serious crime would relate any number of 'decisive victories' by their parents.

Where punishment seems warranted I would choose something such as that suggested by Steele.

I vaguely remember an incident many years ago where a young bloke was caught damaging the front of a local police station. There was glass everywhere, paint, graffiti, faeces and/or urination I think. Although charges were laid and the youngster had to appear before a magistrate, during the same time, police and cleaners were sorting out the damage. It seemed to me ridiculous that the police couldn't just put him to work on cleaning up at once. How well he pitched in doing that could then have formed some sort of report for a magistrate re: determining fines and further action.

I think some of that old stuff where action can be taken on the spot by authority figures, would be helpful. Of course, a lot of parents would object and perhaps that's something that needs to change. We need to have and demonstrate some confidence in the authorities otherwise youth are really only acting out the values we teach.

Hiya again mjpb. re: the courses in schools. When you talk about bastardization and political agendas taking over such courses, I take it you mean ideas like the dreaded feminism; lifestyle tolerance and so on? If you're a fan of Mr. Dodson, are you also an evangelical Christian - just wondering.

I'm a Christian feminist myself - far from evangelical. I suggest a middle road then - I would welcome - even require, if it put people at ease; the presence of parents in those courses. It could even be a parent/child bonding thing.

Many years ago I implemented mother and child playgroup events; father/son discovery activities (I wanted to do some father/daughter and mother/son ones too but just ran out of funding and time) and family activity days in my work. We even had evenings where we booked whole theatres and local swimming pools and such. We did amazing things and they were wonderful experiences for all. I don't see why we couldn't sort of blend with schools in a positive way by incorporating some parent/child activities where we talk about values and beliefs; feelings and expression of feelings.

Unfortunately, those sorts of family and relationship building activities are not well funded or even thought important. I think there is a rich lode for discovery and innovation there. Maybe we could start a revolution.

What do you think?

Steele, I so know what you're saying. I witnessed something very similar myself. A mother whose son had been put off a school bus for vulgar language; barked at a school/transport/parent meeting that her children wouldn't Fx&x'in use swear words. As the words left her lips the implication dawned on her. It was very awkward.

Anyway I don't think parents or children have got any worse. In some ways things are much better than they used to be. I think though that many parents are disengaged, and that's a real pity.