One major influence in the US election was the War in Iraq.

Another not so high profile was the 'Hispanic Vote'.

The Bush admin has (kicking and screaming mind you) decided to try to prevent free access to the USA across the Southern Border, they are also trying to walk a tightrope between:

a) Tough on Illegal immigrants
b) Courting the 'Hispanic' vote.

At last count, I understand there are 13 million illegal, mostly hispanic(Mexican) immigrants in the USA.
They are doing menial jobs.. low pay.. illegally. Most of them probably have legal relatives in the States already.

DEMOCRAT POLICY.
http://democrats.senate.gov/~dpc/pubs/108-1-287.html
<Democrats support an agenda that will enable Hispanic families to achieve the American Dream>.

Hmmm..now would that include FAIR WAGES ? Once they are 'legal' how will it be possible to underpay them any longer ?
If they cannot be underpaid..what is the attraction in employing them ? (to the Republican (?) bosses of corporate farms)
So, if the Democrats make sweeping 'amnesties' will this in turn result in massive unemployment and social unrest among hispanics ?
Then...once the 'now illegals' have been made legal, and can command at least minimum wage.. what will happen ? Why.. more and more of the 70% of Mexicans who when surveyed said "Yes.. we would like to live in America" would come and TAKE the jobs of the now legal hispanics/Mexicans.. and the Republican (?) corporate farm bosses will continue as normal, but the difference now, is that there may well be massive social unrest..unemployment among legalized migrants.

What will Democrat Policy be, when Hispanics begin demanding "Spanish" as the national language.

AAhh...those immortal words "Today we march, tomorrow we vote"

More....

<"Democrats will continue to oppose Republican attempts to undermine public education.">

How ?

<"education reforms signed into law over a year ago, including funds for bilingual education">

How much incentive is there to learn English, when you are offered education in a foreign language ?

Why stop there ? Today..'bi-lingual' .... tomorrow "Candidate SoandSo(Hispanic name) is standing in the seat of SuchandSuch, on Hispanic issues, and promises to lobby for uniform Spanish in the education system now that 63% of the regions population are Spanish Speakers."
(So...the 37% of non Spanish speakers will do.....what ?)

Yep..'MultiCulturalism'... thats what we need.

more......

<"Democrats are committed to ensuring that Hispanics have the opportunity to serve at all levels of government and are present at the decision-making table. Democrats will continue to make diversifying the federal government and the federal judiciary a top priority">

This is racism at is worst... 'institutionalized'.....The deliberate advancement of a particular people on the basis of their 'race' is... racism. It is also discrimination. But most of all, it demonstrates where Multiculturalism LEADS.

Some people would just call it a "bloodless coup" (so far)

MMM very interesting David

Hell of a predicament the Yanks have got themselves over that issue.

I guess there is merit in building the wall. At least then they can hopefully stop the influx, and slowly start to equalise the illegal Hispanic element with the rest of the populace, or I should say, with the lowest socio-economic levels of the legal populace.

“Now for ten years we’ve been on our own
And moss grows fat on a rollin’ stone,
But that’s not how it used to be.
When the jester sang for the king and queen,
In a coat he borrowed from james dean
And a voice that came from you and me,

Oh, and while the king was looking down,
The jester stole his thorny crown.
The courtroom was adjourned;
No verdict was returned.
And while lennon read a book of marx,
The quartet practiced in the park,
And we sang dirges in the dark
The day the music died.”

American Pie, lyrics by Don Mclean,

Sadly true, these are my favourite Bushisms.

"The only way we can win is to leave before the job is done."

“Anybody who is in a position to serve this country ought to understand the consequences of words."

"You know, when I campaigned here in 2000, I said, I want to be a war President. No President wants to be a war President, but I am one."

"You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror."

"I'm not the expert on how the Iraqi people think, because I live in America, where it's nice and safe and secure."

"Let me put it to you bluntly. In a changing world, we want more people to have control over your own life."

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushisms.htm

Ranier..... from you I would have expected something like this:

"AAh..see how they like it... an influx of foreign people.. JUST like them to the Indians"

and you would be entirely right had you said so. Just like Aussie Whites to the Indigenous.

The silly thing in all this, is.. if you don't learn from history, you become its victim. But in the end.. we are our own victims.

Usually if you scratch deep enough and far enough, it will all come down to arrogance, greed, and selfishness.

The best path is to look at where we are at, and try to renew it all from within. Some historical issues can never be successfully reversed. But life for those on the rough end of the history stick can be made much better if people try.

Of course you know by now from the very vague and most occasional hints I give, that the source of social and personal renewal is found in Christ Jesus. Reconcile to the Almighty, through the Son, by the Spirit, and we will be new...born again as it were.
Follow him.. learning all that he commands us, for His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Let Him show the way.. for He is also the Light. Let Him be our food, for He is also the 'bread'...and let Him guide, for He is the Good Shepherd.

Gawd. You can always tell when Boazy's been to a prayer meeting.

Praise the lord and pass the bottle!

Incidentally, since when did "Hispanics" constitute a "race"?

Two of my favouite hymns'

1. What a friend we have in Jesus -:

"What a friend we have in Jesus all our sins and griefs to bear
What a privilege to carry everything to God in prayer.

Have we trials and tribulations are there troubles everywhere,
we should never be discouraged take it to the lord in prayer"

2.One day at a Time-:

"One day at a time sweet Jesus. That's all I'm asking from you.
Just give me the strength to do every day what I have to do.
Yesterday's gone, sweet Jesus and tomorrow may never be mine.
Lord help me today show me the way one day at a time.

Do you remember when you walked among men? Well Jesus you know if you're looking below; it's worse now than then. Pushing and shoving and crowding my mind, so for my sake teach me to take one day at a time."

C.J. I'm sure you can glean my reference to a dangerous social trend without needing to be so pedantic as to point out the obvious.

No.. Prayer meeting is today :) well.. worship.

Sharkfin... there is a simple wonderment in those old Hymns. I sometimes watch some singing on Foxtel ACC showing some Southern Baptist church and the glow on their faces as they truly praise God is heartwarming.

There is something uniquely special about genuine Christian fellowship. Its impossible to explain it in normal words. Its not found in every 'church' but more so on the cutting edge of evangelism.
To say its like heaven on earth is not an exaggeration. I almost don't like sharing it because people might be attracted for the wrong reasons :)

That aside, human conflict usually arises out of competition and greed, and this divides along racial/cultural lines. (see Acts 6:1) Politics also follows these lines. It especially follows such lines where competing groups have similar population levels. Just imagine a US state where the majority of the population is Hispanic ?
I mean.. if it were Mexico no drama, but the US would experience pressure for legislative change to reflect the new demographic reality. The question is, how might this effect the Anglo European Americans already in that state ? How would it effect the allocation of resources such as contracts etc. ? Not un-noticably I suggest.

One of the worst socio/ethnic reactions to arise is 'Our Turn'ism. Where a group which perceived itself to have been marginalized then seeks to 'stick it to' the group they felt marginalized them.

I'm more concerned that the demographics could see Democrats enshrined in power. I don't feel they have the guts to take on Radical Islam. (which has declared it will not stop until the Whitehouse is destroyed)

Democrats: "will send strongly worded letter of dissapproval to enemies and Slash and Burn the CIA"

Republicans: "PNAC, Iraq, Cruise Missiles, Covert CIA operations etc"

Kingdom of God: "those of Caesars household send greetings" :)

the death of fundamentalist christianity and other fundo's is fine by me..

The radical right wing in the US killed more of us soldiers (in the name of god and country) than any radical non-christain group.

is this what you are fearful of boaz, that those right wing christians in the us have lost their power?

Rainier, I think you may be on to something there :)

In fact, I think that this be the very "dangerous social trend" that underlies our resident crusader's campaign, as expressed in his prolific and often rather intemperate contributions to this forum. Heaven forfend that the "right wing christians" lose their current political ascendancy in the Australian electorate too!

Of course, this will indeed happen, as sure as night follows day. When our current bunch of neocon christian toadies are finally sent packing (hopefully at the next Federal election) this will undoubtedly be regarded negatively by those few Australians who share Boaz's bigoted views.

I look forward to reading a piece penned by Boaz sometime in the relatively near future, entitled "The Day Australia Died...."

Christians...and "power" are incompatible terms.

"If anyone among you would be first, let him be last and become servant of all". (Jesus)

Its not 'Christian power' that is at stake. How in the world do you (C.J. and Ranier) connect a discussion about mass floods of illegal immigration to right wing power ? and 'Christian' power at that ?

I think you guys biases are coming through.

At issue is a sociological situation. Demographics.. political power yes..but not "Christian" per se.

Democrats, as I've shown above, have policies which are designed to bolster their own power via the Hispanic vote. It is in their political interests to open things up making it easier for more 'voters' to enter the system.

So, far from your cheap and glib lack of energy "its about fundy power" assessment, its about social changes which could change the whole face of America culturally.

Now.. as I intimated Ranier. I can understand you not having much sympathy for the 'White Anglo/European' culture which emerged in the USA along with its considerable African American component, but looking at it all in purely sociological terms, there are serious causes for worry. Particularly between the Hispanic and African American communities who will both be competing for the lower end of the employment market.

I'm more concerned that Democrats will sacrifice social cohesian and cultural integrity on the alter of political expediency.
If this is not a concern to you C.J. then I wonder about your social concern credentials.

The outcome of the recent election in the USA shows that democracy is alive and well WITHOUT 13 million (currently illegal) extra Democrat voters or the 70% of Mexican population who wish to migrate to the USA.

Aahh..... I think all these religious nutters are confusing the issues.

I doubt any of the world's problems are solved by religion. Go figure ?

Luvitar...its about demographics mate...

Demographics.....Politics

The point at which democracy fails is when two tribes equalling each other in numbers go head to head over control of the country.
At school we are taught that democracy is the ultimate solution. We are not taught about the point at which democracy fails. Maybe John Howard could teach that truth in history.

BD, as always I don't know where to begin in terms of disentangling your cocktail soup of sociology, Christian forebodings, and old adhoc race theories. So I'll save myself from the task this time round. PAX

Ranier...*blessings mate* :)

They are not 'race't theories..they are human theories.

Hmmm perhaps "my" 'competitive tribes' theory is born out of

a)History
b)Experience (Living among tribal people for 8 yrs)
c)Observation of contemporary and past world events..
d)I'm just plain right and ur plain wrong ? :) (stir stir)

Ranier.. you need to get a job done by an Italian concreter :).. see what race is the Bobcat driver, the Cement delivery bloke and etc etc...
Look at the supply chain of Greek fish and chip shops- the wholesalers, transport..... who they are.. its not universal but common. Same with Chinese $2 shops... Importers.. wholesalers..

Fruit and Veg... Mafia.. Large supermarkets told who to buy from under threat of death (recent headlines in Melbourne)

Race race race... its all about 'tribe' except in the case of we whities.. we don't pick 'white trash' deliberately when we contact a wholesaler..we just look in the yellow pages or get a name from a friend.

Sharkfin echoes my sentiments.

But this is too early, I'm rambling. Your own insistence on 'aboriginality' is evidence of the 'tribal' nature of your own position...no ?

Have a great day.

Like most racists who are in deep denial, poor old Boaz can't see his own blatant racism - i.e. his propensity to divide up the social world into "racial" categories that confirm his idiosyncratic view of those who are different from him in various ways.

Not only do the Americans apparently have a Hispanic "race", but now we have Italian, Greek and Chinese "races" in our midst. What's next - a Melbourne 'race' and a Sydney 'race'?

Boaz may claim to know the difference between 'race', ethnicity and religion, but he continues to express his ideology of racism in overtly racist language. Keep that brown shirt ironed, Boazy.

BOAZ.

I'm not your mate. Never will be if you hold those Christian views you write about.

Boaz,

It seems Jesus teachings to you are a convenience sometimes they are totally rejected if an equality is provided to Hispanic in the US.
(isn't that Jesus teachings as well?)

Can you make up your mind?

PS: Jesus (pbuh) was a dark Skin Jewish guy whose language was not English. How is the Klan, Koaz Kavid? (Just stirring:))

Peace,

Dear Holyness,

promise me that you will read the following 5. Follow link to read the other 5. JC did not know these truths of our humanity either, but I don’t to go there- lest it sends you into another evangelical spin out…god help us all here on OLO..

5 THINGS EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT RACE (USA context, but relevant here as well)

Link - http://www.pbs.org/race/001_WhatIsRace/001_00-home.htm

Our eyes tell us that people look different. No one has trouble distinguishing a Czech from a Chinese. But what do those differences mean? Are they biological? Has race always been with us? How does race affect people today?

There's less - and more - to race than meets the eye:

1. Race is a modern idea. Ancient societies, like the Greeks, did not divide people according to physical distinctions, but according to religion, status, class, even language. The English language didn't even have the word 'race' until it turns up in 1508 in a poem by William Dunbar referring to a line of kings.

2. Race has no genetic basis. Not one characteristic, trait or even gene distinguishes all the members of one so-called race from all the members of another so-called race.

3. Human subspecies don't exist. Unlike many animals, modern humans simply haven't been around long enough or isolated enough to evolve into separate subspecies or races. Despite surface appearances, we are one of the most similar of all species.

4. Skin color really is only skin deep. Most traits are inherited independently from one another. The genes influencing skin color have nothing to do with the genes influencing hair form, eye shape, blood type, musical talent, athletic ability or forms of intelligence. Knowing someone's skin color doesn't necessarily tell you anything else about him or her.

5. Most variation is within, not between, "races." Of the small amount of total human variation, 85% exists within any local population, be they Italians, Kurds, Koreans or Koori’s. About 94% can be found within any continent. That means two random Koreans may be as genetically different as a Korean and an Italian

F.H. I'm not against 'equality' for people of hispanic heritage.

I'm against the use of that language/cultural group for base political purposes.

The Democrats policies are not about equality they are about ascendency.

If I was in Mexico, I'd be adamant that the Mexican cultural and language heritage be protected from any 'white/English' growing immigrant group trying to change that, and for the same reasons.

I left the Klan last week :)

Lluvitar.. "mate" in the 'you' sense..

C.J. and RANIER.... as I've labored before, we ARE all members of the human race.. you guys are building a straw man there.

The point I'm making is that linguistic/cultural/tribal differences DO create challenges in the socio political arena.

Good grief.. Raniers oft mentioned 'aboriginality' and resistance to assimilation is adequate evidence of the 'tribal' aspect.

If we are truly ONE...then why not just merge :) as I made a special discussion about.

Why am I labelled a racist when I actually AGREE that there is no genetic basis for distinguishing race, (apart from the small things like eye, nose shape and skin color etc) the thing which causes problems is the genetic CONNECTION between tribes, the sense of 'us' and 'them' and the cultural differences which reinforce this.

Its not me who is the racist here :) I want to treat all the same. 'The same' has to have a reference point. I suggest that 'reference point' is the Australian culture.

You're a lost cause BD, really, you just don't get it do you.
Perhaps you should return to Borneo where you don't have to deal with your own white Christian guilt about racism.

Ranier...and I'll ponder your sense of confused identity :)

I dispute that I don't 'get it'.... I actually do, but my views are clearly at odds with yours, but thats ok.

I think you are so desperate to 'pigeon' hole me in to a racist slot to help your own struggle, but you know deep down I'm not racist in the sense of its definition. I neither regard non 'my' mob as genetically inferior, nor do I treat them 'less' well based on their race.

I am promoting a view which says don't treat my sense of social and cultural identity LESS well than others wish to be treated.

If you maintain that I should not have any sense of 'cultural' idenity then I suggest you jump on the phone and start ringing every 'ethnic' group which has a 'racial' identifier and tell them that they are racists and to lose the racist baggage which suggests they are 'different' from everyone else.

Its pretty simple really.
cheers.

I see Boazy's still in deep denial:

"...get a job done by an Italian concreter :).. see what race is the Bobcat driver, the Cement delivery bloke and etc etc...
Look at the supply chain of Greek fish and chip shops- the wholesalers, transport..... who they are.. its not universal but common. Same with Chinese $2 shops... Importers.. wholesalers...
Race race race... its all about 'tribe' except in the case of we whities..."

Such statements of yours indicate the way you attribute 'racial' characteristics to ethnic groups. The language is yours, not an invention of those of us who are disturbed by your racist rabble-rousing.

"I am promoting a view which says don't treat my sense of social and cultural identity LESS well than others wish to be treated."

Crap. You have repeatedly, loudly and often offensively promoted a view that explicitly privileges your "sense of social and cultural identity" over those of non-Anglo-Celtic ethnicities.

You are indeed in deep denial.

Boazy,

I add my vote to CJ Morgan and Rainier.
I all our previous encounters you proved to see race, ethnicity in people before them being just like you.

Come on Boaz, just accept it and move on.
"if a man says I look like a horse, he is being rude. If the whole village says I look like a horse, I will go and get a saddle".
I am sure you remember this proverb from you missionary days in Africa:)

Not at all...

In fact.. C.J.s last post underlined the very thing I've been saying.

Here is his logic.

If a person (Anglo Aussie) wishes to be treated the same as a person of specific non majority ethnicity this is suddenly transformed into 'you want privilege'. I'd love to know how it became so ?

How is "equality" i.e. the treatment of people NOT based on their ethnicity racism ? its you mob who are in denial I'm afraid.

I'll give you an anecdote which illustrates my position very clearly.

TOUR OPERATOR.
Most of Australia saw this. 'Asian' tour operator in a bus full of Asian tourists. Just before they disembark from the bus, he tells them as follows: "Don't goto this shop, its owned by Europeans, but goto such and such a shop owned by Asians"

So,in case you are wondering exactly how my thoughts translate into real life, that is a good example to hang them on.

What that racist tour operator SHOULD have said is this:

"Well here we are at such and such a mall, there are many souvenier shops inside, I'm sure you will find something of interest"

Am I clear now ? really ? Am I promoting 'white privilege' by asking for non racist tour information ?

Am I asking for 'privilege' by hoping an Italian concreter will equally employ any Australian irrespective of ethnicity ? This is 'privilege' ? c'mon guys you are not coming out of this in any way thats a good look.

I'm saying 'dont' consider race in your social and economic interaction and I'm racist for this ?
I fully expect to see some flying pigs crossing over my place any minute :)

Boaz,

You are labelled racist as far as I can see on this thread so far anyway,because you do not respect that every race has the right to exist and be accepted on his/her own merits, just as he/she is.No adjustments neccessary.

I'm not convinced that race is the issue for BD. If it is so then it's burried below where he can see it.

He is probably fine with anybody who accepts that his particular version of christain-anglo-celtic culture is the way we should live.

Non anglo'a who admit the superiority of his interpretation of the way things should be and try and live that way would be fine by him.

I continue to suspect that the use of the term "racism" for people as religo-culturalist as BD probably hinders the debate. BD can look at himself and know that skin colour does not matter and dismiss the otherwise valid points his opponents are making.

To much focus on racial tags in this kind of discussion can let serious intollerance and narrow mindedness off the hook.

R0bert

What David is asking you people to do here is marry into the white race. Which is one hell of a lot less racist than people refusing to marry any one not of their own race.
It means he is happy for his children to marry into any ethnic group. Can the same be said for some of you who are calling David racist here.

It is you who refuse to marry someone not of your race. What is the reason for this? Trying to keep the bloodline uncontaminated by other races are we? Havent you always told the white race that this is supremiscism.

You are playing racist mind games here to hide your own racism.

It is nonsense that the cultural heritage of groups would be lost by intermarriage. If an Italian woman and a Chinese man marry then their children will grow up knowing how to cook Italian meals and Chinese meals and understanding both cultures. This would be true multiculturalism.

So if the loss of cultural heritage is not the real reason for the refusal to assimilate; then it is the racist reason of not mixing the bloodlines. Look inward and have a truthful look at your own motives.

His holiness wrote: "I'm saying 'dont' consider race in your social and economic interaction and I'm racist for this ?"

No, what you're saying(and don't realise it) is that you're the only one who can declare when racism is at play - without ever having to admit your whiteness is factored into this interaction.

This is what white privlidge is, an ability to stand in the centre but not declare this central position as privlidged, to declare without fear questioning who the "other" is.

He knows he's denying this which makes his racism so toxic.

He lives with a family of non-whites who he has yet to completely understand his own 'othering' of them. They are part of racist constructions about himself.

The so called "His-panics" run across the mountain borders of New Mexico, Arizona, California and Texas, to the Hillsong tune of "the Hymns are alive, with the sound of music?" Boozy reaches for more Benedictine: more ranting, more prejudice.

I have lived in Texas and spent time near the border. The Mexicans or as rednecks like Boaz call them: "Mescans", are usually devout Catholics. I think they spend hours praying for a better life even more than he does.

The answer is not to just build a wall similar to the Berlin wall. The pathway to fairness is to assist in the rebuilding of countries like Mexico. Encourage them having higher minimum wages and following the standards seriously. That means raise their standards of work conditions within their own countries. With strategy and planning, they can do it. These should not be poor countries. Mexico still has plenty of gold, silver, and as many natural resources as Australia does. It has a high population, but so does Japan.

Latino's, or "Hispanics" or whatever, are also speaking more and more English. You say that the US will one day speak Spanish? The opposite is true. Tourism is one of Central America's booming industries and more people are expected to speak English in Central and Southern American countries.

Besides, the US stole Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California in the war of Guadalupe around 1811 (?) anyway. This was 2 years before the US Gold rush in the Wild West.

What a coincidence! Do you think they knew there was gold in them hills? Hillsong indeed!

Without immigrants in the US, their economy would be stuffed. BTW, the southern states are not "yankies", you forgot about their civil war. Imagine the US without immigrants. This music videos shows how they need them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWbyi8Oty2Q

You talk about morals, fairness and Christian goodness? Mexico was never compensated for so much stolen land. You defend greed and only offer an American apartheit as a solution. Typical! You know very little about this region. I doubt you've ever been there.

Fletch...
lets look at a very simple point here :) from a web site devoted to the advancement of Hispanic/Latino/Mexican interests in the re-claiming of lost territory.

http://www.houstonculture.org/hispanic/conquest2.html

"The United States conducted an extended campaign of territorial acquisition against its southern neighbors in three premeditated and ruthless military operations -- the expropriation of Florida from Spain in 1819"

Now.. the KEY word in that is "Spain". It was not 'Mexico' which lost territory it was SPAIN.... the territory held by Spain was obtained in EXACTLY the same way they claim the Yankees took it from them. i.e. Pot calling Kettle black.

It is impossible to find a 'good guy' in all of that and I would be the last to say that the USA was such.

My view on all this is pretty simple.

-What is happening now ?
-On what basis is it happening ?
-What type of response is needed ?

Given that the real reason in the minds of the Mexican illegal immigrants is to 'reclaim territory' (if they are honest) it should be treated as such by the USA. Unfortunately, the Democrats rely too much on this segmented vote and will ultimately bring about this territorial re-claimation by stealth. In my view they are traitors to the interests of USA, but that is a relative term I know :) They are hero's to the Latino's.

The 'purification' of the Latino motives "They are just hard working people looking to better themselves and provide for their families"
is a joke. Sure.. they might be thinking that 'today' until their tummies are full, but full tummies tend to 'expand' their thinking to other issues such as 'historical injustices' etc...

No need to bring in the 'Christian' aspect to this discussion, because we are tossing around the concept of 'societies in competition'.

If we take the Christian principle "Do for others" etc.. to whom do we apply it ?
-Rectify former historic sins .. of the Spanish ? the Yankees ? who ?

You are wrong again Boaz. Mexico was already an Independent Republic and had the famous war of Independence from Spain on September 15, 1810.

You can thank Father Hidalgo, a Catholic Priest for the famous Mexican cry "Viva Mexico".

"He rang the church bell on the night of September 15, 1810 to call his congregation to the church for a mass. When all the people arrived to church, Father Hidalgo rallied the people to fight. He gave the speech that is now called Grito de Delores. He said "Viva Mexico" and "Viva la independencia!" These famous words he said have been remembered and are said each year at the Independence Day celebrations."

http://teacherlink.ed.usu.edu/TLresources/units/Byrnes-celebrations/mid.html

Mexico, including the Comanche Indian cultures in "Texas", which is Comanche for "friend", was part of this liberation.

Before Andrew Stonewall Jackson could declare Texas a slave Republic, he had to out manouver both Spain and Mexico.

That was 9 years before the the Adams-Onís Florida Treaty of 1819.

He was no friend to the US some years later leading the Confederacy against the "damn Yankies" in the North north of Dixieland that questioned slavery. He would shoot you, Boaz, if you foolishly called him a Yankie.

The Florida / Cuba Adams-Onís Treaty of 1819 traded US, claim to Florida against any claim to Texas or Cuba. Of course the US was cleaver and a serious of quasi-independent Republican movements broke up the Mexican Republic.

California, New Mexico and Texas joined the Mexican Republic in 1821 liberated from Spain, backed by the US, then later broke away as quasi independent Republics.

As planned, they later joined the US avoiding the Adams-Onís Florida Treaty of 1819 with Spain.

There is no conspiracy or retribution today of Mexicans wanting to take over the US. "Viva Mexico" was about liberation more than nationalism and that is something you refuse to understand.

They just want to be free and survive.

Call me a "nigger lover" but the rest is your conspiracy theory defending the Andrew Jackson's Confederacy.

You funny boy :) well at least you are making good use of Google, more than I did in terms of detail.

My major point though is that the history of the place was waxing and waning. You can't point to any of them as 'good guy' and the rest as 'bad guy' they all had their black spots.. maybe Jacksons was the slave issue.. maybe he did not even consider slavery in his desire to be free from the Spanish/Mexican corrupt land owner funded tryant-ocracy ?

Now.. be aware :) I am fresh from speaking with a Mexican Indian here in Melbourne, and I'd take his word over yours :)
I agree that most Mexicans would 'initially' have a 'find a new life, better pay to support their families' approach, but there are also those pesky 'radicals' who are prepared to make good use of history for their ethno-political agenda. Never never forget the sneaky work of marxists in all of these things. Did you see the protest footage in Tonga ? The posters of CHE GUIVERA !.... Those damn communists always try to cause disruption and anarchy because they believe doctrinally in chaos being the first step in social renewal in terms of the dialectic of history.

The anarchists in the G20 protest may have been much further left than the Socialist Alliance. They certainly knew how to hijack the thing and make it appear to the world that 'thousands of protestors' were against the g20. (wait till the next big demo, I have a clever idea to hijack it myself.. peacefully)

But Fletch..even if I'm totally wrong on the 'conspiracy' theory, I would not be wrong in the demographic basis for political change.
Ultimately, the increasing Latino population will want a bigger 'Latino' voice ! its common sense and its history.