"...The Bible says that towards the Second Coming there will be a great increase in wars (nations are going to slug it out more), earthquakes will be frequent, famines will spread and diseases are going to sweep the globe (Luke chapter 21)..."

And how many wars and hatreds are based on religious beliefs? Extreme religion (and I place the pentacostals in that category) and the prejudices, intolerances and judgments that go with it are the problem and the cause of the wars. The evangelic George Bush is on record as saying that he is a 'war president' and that he is on a 'mission from god', Sarah Palin thinks she is also on a mission from god - dangerous stuff! Why are the religious so happy to kill and demonise other people, just because they don't share their views?

Earthquakes might be less frequent if some of the religious were actually concerned about the environment and didn't harbour the view of leaving it all to 'god's will'.

Famines would be less if the selfish religous actually spread the wealth around and gave to others instead of the 'greed is good' and 'worship the almighty $' mentality that abounds in the evangelical churches. Diseases (and famine) might be less prevalent if the fundy churches promoted abortion, condoms and sex education in schools instead of the idiotic abstinence for hormone fuelled teenagers and young adults.

In short, if the religious were more concerned with humanity and less with the bible, the world would be a better place. You don't need religion to live a life of morality, concern for all humanity and helping those less fortunate then yourself.

I've just read the whole thread. Thank you Steele Mann for your lucid grounded contribution with not a hint of unprovoked ad hominem.

There are many websites available
in which lucidity and rational
play a part in the Creation vs Evolution
debate. One has to simple find the time
to scrawl through them.

This one is an example that may
be of interest:

http://www.123infinity.com/creation_vs_evolution.html

You're prevaricating yet again, Porky. While you did acknowledge that "natural selection" does occur, you then proceeded to demonstrate that you don't have a clue as to what is meant by the term and its critical role in the origin of species:

<< The fact is, natural selection does occur. The problem is when this is unfairly (on the basis of available evidence) extrapolated to 'origins' of a spontaneous nature >>

In my last post I referred to "evolution by natural selection". My reading of your original comment (from which the above quotation is taken) is that you were fudging, probably on the basis of your lack of understanding of Darwin's theory. This is, no doubt, also why you're so sure that black holes exist - i.e. you don't understand physics any better than you do biology, but there's nothing about black holes in your holy book so you're happy to defer to scientific authority on that one.

I don't blame you for your obvious lack of education, but I do object to the persistent mendacity and arrogance by which you attempt to foment hatred, ignorance and divisiveness in this forum.

Speaking of which, how about your most recent lie in your thread about Bill Henson? I only ask this here because you seem to have deserted that thread once the lie was exposed. If it was simply a case of "muffing" it, why not acknowledge your error and retract the claims you made on the basis of it?

Hi Foxy.
Yes... I see your five sources and yet they dont preclude a Creator. The material for everything to happen and subsequently exist, was there from before the Beginning.

The Creator is known to the men and women of earth, down through history, by His Spirit and the folks who know His Spirit are the ones who have His Spirit and He, the Spirit being in us born againers, is the Convicting Power regarding the Creation.

Outside of having Gods Spirit I understand that its difficult to get that Conviction.
Its in this area of not having Gods Spirit in our lives that the evolution theory comes into existance with a little 'help' from a persistant dark side.

It must seems strange all of this talk of His Spirit, but thats the way it is.

Ive been born again with His Spirit in me 26 years and am now so used to having Gods Spirit in me that I quite often forget that there was an 'old life' when I was thrashing around in my fallen, carnal state doing my own thing...and forming my own theories.

I was hoping someone might have had some new and unique evidence apart from what Ive been reading much of my life on the the origin of the species/man-out-of-apes/the survuval of the fittest stuff.

The evolutions give the christians 'hell' quite often in this area of the Genesis account... yet what have they got that precludes a Divine Creator?
Zip!

Everything Ive seen or heard to date doesnt cut out "Someone", we know Him by His Indwelling Spirit as The Lord, from starting the whole show off.

Foxy...
re: the witchcraft literature

I find it a real sly and cunning and evil thing that the Potter books present young magicians actually doing battle with evil spirits and dark powers...and...showing to the children of this age, in the process of this depicted conflict, exactly how to get involved with REAL dark powers through the witchcraft practices shown in the novels... practices that can actually, in certain circumstances, open doors to audible communication with dark powers.
Its so slick its almost remarkable.
Slicker than any used car salesman ever was or ever will be.

Satan using Rowling, with her contact to demon powers already established, to write books to get doors to childrens minds open.
The warlocks and witches will love her. She's feeding them fresh converts. Cementing Goth culture. Drawing to clairvoyance. Openning girls to the allure and sexual immorality of the warlocks. Its all happening...some through young Harry Potter.

Many a young person has played with an OUIJA board and had, suddenly and without warning, control of the board taken from them by an unexpected and fearsome power.

Like some of the other born again christians, Ive fellowshiped with over the years in the charismatic christian churches, Ive had contact with those dark powers and have been in a position, from time to time, to have to have had to actually rise up to fight them off when they attacked me in my sleep.

GY.

Those who take Genesis literally sure are many, if not all, in my church circles.
Same with the Salvos I came out of before the charismatics.

I have no trouble at all with the Virgin Birth, healings, miracles, raisings from the dead.
One of my pastors had a pancreatic cancer healing right on the spot in front of the congregation.
The Holy Spirit is everywhere He is invited to, in churches who step out and invite Him.