My grandmother had what
we call, "native wit."

And this thread reminds me of
one of her sayings...

"From an empty saucepan into a leaky one."

Nothing is achieved.

The same applies in continuing with this
"same old re-hashed" discussion.

Polycarp wrote:

“A Sikh, Hindu, Bahai,Moslem, Buddhist are ALL welcome to enter any Christian chapel and no-one is going to regard them as a 'dirty infidel'..no..they will regard them as people for whom Christ died.”

Non-Muslims are free to enter a mosque. I visited the West End Mosque in Brisbane and watched the prayer service. One boy put his head down and pointed his rear toward Mecca. Apparently this was something he had done before. His father with a sign turned him around.

After prayers they divided into groups and discussed a portion from the Koran. I was invited to join the discussion. They discussed a verse from the Koran where Mohammed advised Muslims to read and learn.

Two members of the group had read Salman Rushdie’s ‘Satanic Verses’ and did not think much of it. However, no one in the group expressed approval of the fatwa against Rushdie. They all subscribed to the democratic ideal of free speech.

The imam wanted to give me some tapes and books. I refused them, as I did not want to give them the impression I was interested in joining their religion. I told them I was gathering material for an article.

However, they treated me with courtesy and not as a 'dirty infidel'.

I would prefer not to be regarded as “people for whom Christ died.” I think I am responsible for my own sins and don’t appreciate such nonsense. It is an evasion of responsibility to think your sins can be taken away if you believe some mumbo jumbo.

However, whom were you referring to as regarding others as ‘dirty infidels’? It certainly wasn’t the Muslims I encountered.

I suspect you of having a prejudice against a religion which in some respects is superior to yours. One respect is that it does not believe in a humanoid God that takes away your sins. Muslims, like Jews, believe you are responsible for your sins and are not washed clean of them by believing in nonsense.

Maybe I have you wrong, and you weren’t referring to Muslims. Who were you referring to?

Dear David

you misunderstand the nature of the access to this particular facility.
At RMIT it is strictly limited to Muslims. If it was as you said for the Mosque...then there is no reason whatsoever that they cannot use the Multi Faith centre as it is now available to them when they need it.

Infidels are 'dirty' as in unclean.. impure.. sinful.. and a host of other names described by the Quran.. Christians are 'deluded' Jews are also deluded.. and away from truth.. their beliefs are 'monstrous'.. (19:91)

"And thou wilt find them [the Jews] the greediest of mankind"....[Surah 11, v. 96] read it for yourself David.

You can dress it up from anecdotal experience all you like.. the fact remains that in their documents/constitution such is the case as I've described.

If 'infidels' were no different in the view of the Muslims.. then why do they need a 'mosque' at RMIT? Their complaint is that they need a place EXCLUSIVELY for them.

I don't care whether it's Muslims or Sikhs or Jews or Christians.. the principle is the same- NO State land for discriminatory religious purposes. No amount of pleasant warm fuzzy anecdotes will alter my position on this. Personally..I don't see why ANY religion needs a place on a university campus for prayer. We sure don't there are plenty of Chapels around the place and in any case the 'Church' IS.."the people"..not the building.

Your point about the chaplains is only partly valid. There is no compulsion nor discrimination involved with their presense. Don't make the mistake of insulting Australian history and telling us we don't have a sufficiently strong Christian tradition to justify some meeting of that area of life at public expense.
In 1957 the largest crowd EVER to attend the MCG was there to listen to Billy Graham the evangelist.

If 99 Australians were Christian and one was an atheist or a Jew..I have no problem with those elected by the 99 deciding to use public expense to provide pastoral care in schools. Hopefully the '1' would not annoy everyone else by disputing it.

It seems that Porky's having a bad day.

Serves him right - mendacious, hateful hypocrite that he is, I reckon.

Perhaps he could reflect on why it is that absolutely nobody agrees with him.

Dear Polycarp,

No amount of ugly words can override the Holocaust and other products of Christian hate.

However you wrote:

"And thou wilt find them [the Jews] the greediest of mankind"....[Surah 11, v. 96] read it for yourself David.

I looked it up and found:

[11.96] And certainly We sent Musa with Our communications and a clear authority,

The ugly words you cited don’t exist. Apparently you have been misinformed.

There is discrimination in regard to the chaplains. The state funded schools are for ALL children. Chaplains of a particular religion simply have no business in the schools. Pastoral care is simply not a function of government unless one lives in a theocracy.

The 'Shine' program of Hillsong church misuses the Chaplaincy program. 'Shine' targets at risk girls and promotes self esteem through politeness, personal grooming and deportment, ideas generally discredited by youth workers.

It is harmful to fund Shine's message to vulnerable girls that they need to conform and be pretty. At-risk girls have enough difficulties in their lives without the added burden of social aspiration and the consumption of beauty products."

Scripture Union exclusively supplies federally funded chaplains to Education Queensland. It recruits pledged evangelists and place them into over 500 Queensland State schools.

Scripture Union is affiliated with the Pentecostal Assemblies of God/Hillsong Church conglomerate.

State/Federally funded SU chaplains are in what appears to be the majority of Queensland state schools. Education Queensland from the Minister downwards apparently turns a blind eye as the evangelistic, Pentecostal Assemblies of God/Hillsong affiliated Scripture Union organisation—EQ's exclusive supplier of state school chaplains—publicly describes students as 'ambassadors for Jesus' and is not only installing 'Shine' and 'Strength' Hillsong church programmes into our public schools, but also allowing and assisting SU 'chaplain' evangelists in recruiting male and female state primary and high school students for Pentecostal/Hillsong Jesus boot camps. As we say, the perfect evangelism cycle: gain trust; groom; convert.

This is not pastoral care. These are missionaries.

The Chaplaincy Program has no place in our public schools.

Hear, hear david f!

However, I suspect you may have inadvertently posted your comment on the wrong thread?