Anonymum, there are many examples of people of both genders killing their children, which has little to do with the "abuse" of children. The Farquarson children's mother was of the view that their father was an excellent dad and refused to believe he could have done what he was found to have been responsible for. Karen Bell left her home to escape violence, but happily left her children with a man who she considered an excellent father. Both, as it turned out were proven wrong, but these were not systemic failures, they were sudden, terrible tragedies that probably would have happened regardless of intervention. Most men don't do this and mnor do most women.

Are you going to do me the courtesy of answering my questions? I've responded as well as I know how to your points. If you want to simply rant, then I won't bother responding at all.

Glamorizing cold blooded murderers? What next? Perhaps the the justification of the fathers suicidal tendencies are more important than the child's life?
If I were to agree with those statements, I would have to be in an extremely disturbed mindset.

Righto then. I hope you manage to make some peace with your demons.

What a shame that this discussion amounts to nothing. It could've been an interesting debate because we already have something in common; we all what is best for children of divorced parents.

Antiseptic, your argument about these killer dads is valid but I doubt that Anonymum and her sidekicks are interested in a balanced debate.
All they are interested in is propagandising.

What a shame that they are not even willing to consider that there are two sides to the issue and are not interested in a fair and balanced debate.

Some of the fathers' groups sites such as Dads on the Air seem quite reasonable.
They are right to say that the Australian Family Law system should not prevent fathers who want to look after their children from doing so.

Evidence is important as pointed out by myself and others.

Celiva, please don't describe me a 'sidekick' and a 'propagandist'. When I, as a mother, have been silenced and prevented from protecting my child. Indeed, been legally forced to allow his abuse to continue I think I am entitled to protest in the only 'forum' available to me.

If you would be kind enough to read www.kidsindistress.org.au you will find my and my son's story in amongst all the research and 'evidence' papers you may like to read.

If you read deeply enough you will discover that the Family Court does not investigate child abuse claims. State will not investigate child abuse claims.

The Australian Family Court will not protect frightened women and children and is responsible for the enforcement of the abuse of children. There isn't "two sides to the issue", the Family Law Council wrote a report in 2002 and described this situation.

To claim 'lack of evidence' is to be complicit with those who believe that what children and women say is a lie. The Legal system acts on the belief that women and children are liars. The graphic things my child said about the abuse are worthless, unless a three year old can tell police. If this child was able to tell the police, it would most likely been explained as fantasy or 'coaching' by me.

Lack of evidence is the foundation of the legal system, but the evidence it requires is almost impossible to obtain. Therefore children are forced into unsafe situations and by this we 'propagandists' mean molested, beaten, and basically I like to use the term 'psychologically compromised'. But it isn't a gender issue.

Though Antiseptic and I have clashed quite strongly on many occasions I have to say I'm with him on this one.

As Celivia pointed out, this could be a good discussion.

What I'm confused about is, is the opinion of Antymums and supporters that the Family Law Court is somehow a criminal court. It is not. It is to arrange access and contact between children and their parents. It is also not true that children do not have any say.

If there is a crime committed, and child abuse falls squarely into that field, than the perpetrator needs to be dealt with through the criminal courts.

Child abuse is a dreadful scourge in our society. The perpetrators are mothers, fathers, grand-parents, foster parents, aunts and uncles to mention, but a few.