I would like to extend my thanks to Anonymum and Father for Women's Rights for writing about these issues and defending the truth.

Of course some fathers are loving and want the best for their children. It the 'others' that are of most concern, the predators who hate not love. These 'fathers' are actively encouraged by the court system to persue and abuse their children with absolute impunity.

There is discussion on this forum: article: Child abuse in the family Court by Sunita Shaunak 29 July 2008. You need to look in the past quarter.

The children, such as my four year old who has endured and most likely will continue to endure abuse, need all the courageous people out there to speak up for them. Mothers such as myself are forced into silence or lose our child/children to the abuser.

Believe me: there is no system of redress for these children. NO legal system to protect them.

Anonymum, if you are really serious about a genuine discussion to help kids then please stop your highly biased attacks on the fathers groups. That will lead either to the thread being ignored by those who don't have an ax to grind or a nasty point scoring exercise with you throwing mud on fathers groups and others throwing mud back at the mothers groups. Both groups have their strengths and their weaknesses. Your posts and the posts of some of your associates so far have shown an inability to take a fair and reasoned stance.

I've no interest in buying into a battle over who has done more wrong, single dads or single mums. It's a no win game that does nothing to help kids or protect them from abuse.

I saw how one side of the discussion on the "Child abuse in the Family Court" thread was shut down by those entrenched in the mothers good, fathers bad mindset. If you are planning a repeat of that have fun, if you really do care about kids and their protection you might have to be willing to see thats it's not always so black and white, thats it's not always dad's who have abused the system for their own ends.

Over to you.

R0bert

Robert, with all due respect, I am not attacking anybody but simply stating the truth needs to be acknowledged.

If anybody thinks that mothers have been making discussion one-sided in their favour, then that person has not been paying attention. Family law sites, among others, have been swamped with abusive emails from men who want to monopolize the discussion in their favour, and the same has happened on a larger scale in the society itself, including in the family courts.

We do not see women dressing up in black and picketing, harassing and assaulting women who've left wife-beaters, humiliating them in front of their communities. We do not see mothers' rights activists gathering in terrorist networks and using militant strategies to intimidate, harass and oppress women into staying with men who brutalize and abuse them and their children. We do not see women pushing for use in family court of corrupt rackets such as the Parental Alienation Syndrome to silence the children who report brutality and sexual abuse, or manufacturing false statistics to claim ridiculously that 90% of mothers are abusive and fathers are not. Nor do we see women claim, as many men have stated to me, that some wives deserve to be killed; that women should be second-class citizens; that women are born b*tches and should be bred out of that attitude; that women are "bags" and "kitchen b*tches"; or that a man who is good to his wife is a pushover.

In short, the wrong here is deeper than even I had expected that it would be - and I've seen extreme corruption. And Australian men as much as Australian women and children would benefit from seeing these things for what they are. Only then can any kind of a fair-minded solution be realized and have a chance of doing public good.

OK one more thing,

Anonymum you said, "...simply stating the truth needs to be acknowledged."
It's only the truth as seen from one side though that you are presenting.
There is not only one truth from one side, both sides have truths.

Anyway, this is about the same claim as the proselytising Christian fundamentalist make.
They don't like it when all other religions state that THEIR view is the truth (the only truth) and needs to be acknowledged.

Anyway, my purpose is not to just criticise your view because you're possibly making some valid points that have a merit of their own but without them having to be too genderised.

I haven't really participated in too many mud-slanging at the opposite sex debates, it kind of drains me, because what is the point?
Child abuse and neglect happens from all sides, mothers, fathers, baby sitters, priests, bigger brothers (perhaps sisters).
I think it's better to address child abuse as a whole issue rather than blaming the bad fathers only.

Good luck with this discussion though, I might look back to see what's happening in a few days.

Justice For Kids, thank-you your support. I know its traumatic dealing with this type of ignorance. The disgusting comments that were left for Karen Bell who lost her three children because they all thought that she was lying about domestic violence and the police did nothing. Comments like, " She should have done something" is ridiculous. Its not that easy sleeping with the enemy as Julia Robert's had portrayed and yet 20 years later the public still has not got the picture that domestic violence victims and child abuse victims do enter that court room not knowing what to expect and met with the most extreme amount of adversity when they try to raise concerns about the safety of children. The dam dad who killed his own children to get back at his ex was just another example, not to mention the amount of homicides that aren't reported in the media.

Celvia, If your friend Robert had told you that pigs fly, I am sure that you would argue that passionately too and state that there are "different truths". I would prefer if you are going to participate without experience or knowledge that you at least take some time out and read some of the cases. I don't mind being challenged, but its a waste of everybody's time you are making statements based on assumptions.