Romany spelling tips appreciated.

If it helps understand the tactics being used to attack the mens groups. A link was provided to an abstract on the MRA website of an article looking at 16 cases which appeared to meet the criteria for PAS written by people other than Richard Gardner. I've not rea the whole article but it appears to be looking at the case for and against PAS. A quote was provided straight after claimed to be by Richard Gardner which in the right context could be soft on pedophiles which appears to be trying to give the impression that MRA is soft on child sexual abuse. The word pedophiles which was in the posted quote was not in the referenced article, the referenced article was not written by the author of the quote. Some of the mens groups may end up looking bad by their own doings, others by being tarred with the same brush and others because their opponents have no qualms about presenting false claims about them.

I've not had anything to do with MRA for some time and looking at the article headlines I'm in a different place to them not (I think) but their work is still valuable. Sue Price is not an angry divorced man, she is someone who has seen the harm done by those playing gender politics with human lives and is trying to combat some of the worst of that. She and those with her may not always get it right but it's no haven of child abusers trying to harm children.

R0bert

Celivia:"Is there an alternative model? "

There are several different US models, although nowadays mostly variants of the Duluth model because it is simple, if brutal, to administer at the front line. Th British model is becoming the same way. I'm not too familiar with models used in other countries, because the US and British version seem to have the greatest influence on our situation here.

Romany:"lets get right away from the label "DV" for the kind of violence Fractelle and I and Anansi's patients endured: - that's "battering"."

Could not agree more. Call a spade a spade. I like your idea of approaching community groups, as well. I'm sure there are many people who feel uncomfortable with the current campaigns. Perhaps I should contact the White Ribbon people, although I suspect they're wed to the Duluth model too strongly to be interested.

Fractelle, thanks for the advice. I'll take some of that on board, I think. Do you know if on-line petitions carry much weight?

R0bert, this thread and the CSA Privacy one have shown pretty clearly some of the tactics used by the entrenched radfems (and some of the radical MRAs). People of good intent have to filter out the noise they produce if any progress is to be made.

Antiseptic

On-line Petition, why not?

Signatories must be genuine and supply real names and addresses just like in a formal letter.

Please remember that as more women work in these industries (particularly middle management) you will encounter more difficult women - law of averages - and is not an aspersion on all of us.

:-)

For those who might be interested, this is a link to a study being done in the UK, but relevant to Oz as well, which came from the LFAA website

http://www.lonefathers.com.au/whats_new_comments.php?id=185_0_14_0_C.

It is open to both men and women and is anonymous. I've already submitted my survey. It's very comprehensive and the questions are gender-neutral. You will be asked your gender at the start, however.

If this research is properly supported, it may inform a better approach.

http://www.weblearn.ox.ac.uk/site/users/manc1017/public/ipvesearch/

Antiseptic " this thread and the CSA Privacy one have shown pretty clearly some of the tactics used by the entrenched radfems "

I'm not of the view that those tactics are necessarily "radfem", there is a lot of paternalism involved in discrimination based on gender, in seeing male's as responsible for providing, female's as being better parents and then trying to enforce those roles.

R0bert

Robert, as I said, some MRAs are equally as guilty of the tactics shown here.

To clarify, what I was referring to was the attempt by a few to hijack the discussion and turn it into a personal hate-fest rather than a productive discussion, as well as the attempts to limit the discussion to just one aspect of violence(DV), while ignoring genuine topical questions raised by other posters. The same sort of behaviour is also to be seen from certain MRAs, with the inevitable outcomes that people of good will tend to desert the conversation and the topic is suppressed.

On a more positive note, the thread has shown also that if the people trying to do this are challenged properly and factually, their own words will end up hanging them. I must admit that I have fallen for the trap a few times in the past and no doubt exacerbated such situations. We live and learn.