Celivia:"Nobody finds violence worse when it’s directed at women than when it’s directed at men."

The advertisements, the White Ribbon campaign, the PM's statement all state that women must be immune from violence, but make no mention of men at all. They also make little mention of DV, in particular the PM said "violence against women is not acceptable under any circumstances". The semiotics are clear.

Celivia:"there is no reason to believe that women will be less sympathetic elsewhere. "

Have you read the comments posted to newspapers? Inevitably, if a man tells his story he is swamped with a tide of women telling him he's a whinger or to get over it or simply "be a man". There is little sympathy for male victims and that situation will only get worse with the Duluth model implemented IMO.

Celivia:"Learn from women rather than criticising them. "

I don't criticise women for this, I criticise the DV industry and the politicians who are pandering to them without considering the consequences. I have nothing but sympathy for women who have experienced a violent partner.

Celivia and Fractelle, my mention of the throwing of things was because I have had 3 separate partners who all threw something at some time. I have never done so, nor have I punched walls. One of those partners I mention broke her hand when she tried to backhand me and I dodged, while the doorframe didn't. Nonetheless, I still regard an explosive release of tension as no exemplar of violence, unless it is directed at a person or ntended to create fear. young men, especially those with poor educational attainment are quite prone to these releases of frustration and often that breaks the tension enough for reason to take over.

With respect to both Romany and Fractelle, no one disputes serious violence needs serious intervention, but the response today is out of proportion to the seriousness at the lower end of the scale. That means it is bad law.

Antiseptic,

Not being deliberately argumentative here but : - while not reading every newspaper comment on male-directed DV, the link to which someone posted on these threads did indeed contain “Be a man”-type statements – but those came predominantly(which, though a qualifier, is not an absolute) from other males. And the blokes I have been in contact with who went through it confirmed that most condemnation they had was from work-mates. Admittedly both were from lower socio-economic backgrounds – which surely highlights the fact that it’s essential these stories be broadcast more?

Yes, I agree its tough. Inevitably one gets ridiculed or blamed. The reason many women remain silent is that we also get castigated: the most common reaction is that a) we must have done something to provoke it (and so we are bad) b) we are exaggerating or lying(and so we are bad) c) we probably secretly enjoy it till it gets out of hand (and so we are bad) and d) we should have been able to prevent it…so we must be bad. Just like men, this is not confined to the general public - we still get these reactions from those who should know better like cops and doctors .

Just as still happens in cases where the violence performed is rape, ANY victim of violence still has to battle old preconceptions. I honestly don’t know what more I can say to convince you of this truism if my own experiences and those of other women don’t help you see that.

And yes, yes, yes. I thought we had established that we are talking about different kinds of violence. So how do we combat it: on two fronts?

I agreed with you that this law was indeed open to abuse. My post about my own experiences and my friends' deaths was an effort to show the circumstances in which such a law could be seen to be justified You still do not agree that it has any justification and is a bad law. So I once again pose the question: what is the answer?

Fratelle "who question the reality of extreme domestic violence"

I don't question the reality of extreme DV, rather how common it is and the way that end of the spectrum is used to justify the entire DV focus being about male violence against women.

"I know and as Celivia, Romany and Ansansi have stated, it happens across the strata of society." as have I "I know spousal violence occurs across the board "

I have not claimed that DV is confined to a particular demographic, rather that it's more common in some groups - impacting on both perpetrators and victims. Indiginous people are by my understanding about 1 1/2 times more likely to be killed by an intimate partner. Filipino women living in Australia are six times more likely than other women to be killed by an intimate partner.

Have a read of the section of the paper I referenced yesterday.

I found a pointed example of the situation that Antiseptic and I are describing yesterday http://www.domesticviolence.com.au/

"However, in a relationship where domestic and family violence is occuring the situation is very different. One person in the relationship uses abuse and or violence to control the other person through fear. The victim feels threatened, too frightened to argue back, or too scared to disagree or express their opinion. The perpetrator has power over the victim. In the majority of cases of domestic and family violence the victims are female."

"23% of Australian women who have ever been married or in a de-facto relationship experienced violence by a partner at some time during the relationship. (Australian Bureau of Statistics, 1996)"

Do you really believe that 23% of Australian women have had a partner using the form of violence described earlier? Not the two people had an argument and one or both lost their temper kind but the male was trying to dominate the other through fear kind. If thats not what they are saying then why don't they ask how many men have experienced violence from a partner?

R0bert

Romany, your story illustrates why I sometimes feel like crying on threads like these.

I've looked after enough women like you. In Intensive Care Units. If only it were easy to 'identify' the type of man, who do these kind of things to their partners.

Antiseptic, I do get your point about your frustration that seemingly inoccuous behaviour is seen as full-scale DV. The problem is that seemingly inoccuous behaviour can slowly escalate, sometimes imperceptibly until there is full scale assault. Unfortunately, women do need to learn to be alert to this. Celivia was, but many are not.

Romany:"how do we combat it: on two fronts?"

We give the public credit for being intelligent enough to be able to understand a message that is more complex. Anybody who's been in a healthy relationship knows that arguments happen mutually. If one partner doesn't want to argue, the other soon calms down usually. Giving a message that men are always at fault is at odds with their experience. That makes it less credible to those it's meant to be influencing to modify their behaviour, ISTM.

I'd like to see a more nuanced approach, perhaps including advertisements depicting non-violent behaviours escalating over time into violence. A series run over a few months showing a couple in a deteriorating relationship? Perhaps a counter series of the same couple in a healthy relationship, showing what they do differently to achieve the better outcome. Show why the outcome is better for everyone.

Make it about choices not coercion, and make it a mutual responsibility, not an imposition on one party.

If people learn to bend a little, there is no problem except with the truly sociopathic.

Robert
I accessed the site whose URL you provided and I agree with all you've said: DV is presented there as solely the prerogative of men. I would, in your position, be justly angry about the exclusive use of the genderised personal pronoun throughout.

But, honestly, I feel that this instance and others like it present a great opportunity for you and others to get pro-active. Only by contacting such sites, contributing your stories, putting your case, will you be able to bring about change. We women on this thread empathise with your frustrations, but it is the public at large and organisations you need to be directing much of your frustration at, not us.

I know that some men believe there is an exclusive organisation existing that will marginalise male victims if they attempt to raise consciousness. To prove this is not so keep searching out sites and organisations and tackle them - objectively and rationally - about this percieved bias. It took women years to get recognition and it might take a while for your efforts to be seen to have any impact. But changes won't happen unless people are prepared to be instrumental in change.

Anansi, Celivia, Fracetelle etc.
I want to say thank you for your expressions of concern. But I also want to make it clear that I am NOT a brave person as someone suggested. I am one of the biggest wimps out. However niether have I ever, ever, considered myself a victim. I'm a survivor. And the only reason I ever talk about my experiences is in the hope that someone, somewhere might feel trapped in similar circumstances and, if they see that a pacifist, wimpy, ordinary person like me can survive then so can they