Celivia, this is what the Duluth model leads to http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24489791-952,00.html

I quote:"VICTIMS of domestic violence who kill their abuser will be able to claim a defence against murder or manslaughter charges under new laws."

In other words, all a woman who wants to be excused of murder has to do is first get a DVO and she can get away with murder. Who then is the abuser? Is it the man who is now dead, or the woman who perpetrated the ultimate abuse and killed him?

The thinking behind this is entirely ideological, with little basis is logic. It's akin to me being able to "justify" burning someone's business down because they ripped me off financially. Sheer madness.

Antiseptic - I agree with you that such a system could indeed lead to abuse. But I think, perhaps, you are still equating all domestic violence with the slanging match/virago model which, we have all agreed, is no less violence and needs to be addressed. But that still leaves the question of what to do about the "other end" violence:

A friend of mine was approached by two people who volunteered to "take care" of her violent husband. Though terrified for her life she, of course, said no. Yet a couple of weeks later he made good on eight years of threats and killed her and then immediately did what she had feared all along - and tried to murder the kids as well.

Another friend - same story. Only in this case he killed her parents as well.

My own husband made it clear that any attempt to speak out would ensure the deaths of both my kids AND my parents: - he used to taunt me with the well-thought-out-plan of how he could get away with it, scott-free.

I'd always believed I could never take a life but I knew if it came to a choice between doing that and my kid's and/or parents'lives I would have to. Its a rock and a hard place for many, Antiseptic.

I managed to escape and get to Oz. But it took eight months and 3 continents, going into hiding, changing our identities, eluding private dectectives and cost me every penny I had in the world so that I ended up bringing up my kids in poverty so absolute we were once homeless. He, on the other hand got to keep the house, car, boat, furniture, clothes, ...and his good name.

So while I agree this new law is open to abuse, I can fully understand the him-or-my-kids scenario that causes some women to take this dreadful step. Then they lose their kids anyway while they serve a jail sentence and the children become wards of the State.

What IS the answer? I am sure I have no idea.

Antiseptic, which poster has negated your experience? Time and time again have posters suggested that it is important for men to relate their experiences.

Also, it is wrong to claim that a claim of DV would result in higher amount of money a custodial parent would get. That is simply not true.

Maintenance and/or government support is based on criteria which have nothing to do with any claims to violence. It is unfortunately used, by both parties, male and female, to bolster their claim for custody of children.

Robert actually ended up the primary carer of his children and as I related earlier, I know a man who had actually been carted off by the police and ended up being the primary carer of his son.

You are simply wrong by stating there is a 'DV industry'

Romany, thanks for sharing your experience. It's hard to comprehend what you have been through and it's clearly a whole different world to my experience.

I struggle to know what we should do about that type of behaviour. I do believe that if we reduce the acceptability of lower level violence it's less likely that people will move onto the extreme stuff but thats more about those who hit when they loose their temper not those who deliberately kill .

Were there any cultural or social factors which were significant in your situation? I know spousal violence occurs across the board but have the impression that it's more concentrated in some cultural/social groupings. The values that I assume drive such extreme behaviour are not something that I've ever heard expressed by men I've mixed with (although someone like that might keep it to themselves). Were there things about your ex and your friends husbands that would mark them out to others as holding such extreme attitudes?

R0bert

Robert,
Spousal violence occurs in the finest of millieus. Here in Australia that lovely understanding medical practioner could be beating his wife.

I know this personally for a fact.

It is a myth that it is certain already publicly violent persons from particular cultural backgrounds who beat and rape their spouses. Being publicly violent does not mean that this person also is violent to his nearest and dearest at home. Wife beaters can be fine upstanding citizens who would not dream of getting into fisticuffs outside the comfort of their home.

Family and friends often have no inkling, no idea.

Romany, what a brave woman you are! I shuddered reading your story. I’m so glad that your sons have become such balanced persons thanks to your support and care, that you’ve been able to provide a safe home for them and for yourself.

Antiseptic,
good to agree on the definitions.

You said (to Anansi),
“The main difference as it has been put here is that domestic violence victims are often female, whereas the victims of violence outside the home are enormously more likely to be male. It seems that some here see violence directed at women as worse than violence directed at men…”
No, you are using the wrong reasoning.
Nobody finds violence worse when it’s directed at women than when it’s directed at men.
The correct reasoning is that violence by an intimate partner in one’s own home is worse than violence happening randomly in the street or in pubs by strangers.
That women are attacked by their partners far more often and incur far more serious injuries is a fact.
As Anansi said, the ones who suffer the worst consequences of domestic violence are naturally getting more attention.

Men who are attacked in their own home by their partner should make sure they get the same recognition but not by criticising what women have achieved. Women never got what they achieved handed to them on a silver plate; they fought for the right to be heard.
Pynchme (I think it was her) said men should get organised, tell your stories not only on OLO but also to the world! Learn from women rather than criticising them.
Ask for help if you need it.
Here in this thread and others about DV, women have been very sympathetic to the experiences of men who were victims of DV, and helpful too; there is no reason to believe that women will be less sympathetic elsewhere.

”The fact is that people do get angry and they do raise their voices and they sometimes even hit or throw things at walls with no threat to their spouse.”

Continued