Malcolm Turnbull is the new Liberal Party leader. I've just come from being one of a panel on Australia Talks http://www.abc.net.au/rn/australiatalks/ which discussed his rise.

One thing that struck me was how Malcolm Turnbull's elevation seemed to have energised the small "l" Liberals who were ringing in as well as saying they were rejoining the Liberal Party.

The other thing was that Turnbull was associated in the conversation with issues that would be unlikely to move a single vote - mostly the Republic and the environment.

There seemed to be a lot of affection for his character.

Wondered how the inhabitants of On Line Opinion felt about him. (I'll do a survey tomorrow too I think).

Unlike Kevin Rudd,Malcolm won't have to form a committee to make a decision.As Malcolm said today,Kevin tried to deflect attention from the most important issue ie the collapse of the Lehman Bros Investment Bank,by raising the issue of the republic.This was really pathetic on Kevin's behalf.

Malcolm is a doubled edged sword,he has not been in the party long enough to understand it's culture.He has to bring the party with him whilst still not suffering fools who want to please everyone.

As he indicated in the Kerry O'Brien interview tonight,wisdom is a blessing that comes with age and experience,and it seems Malcolm is still willing to learn.

Aussies like strength with humility,and Malcolm on his journey to power,may well surprise even his harshest critics.

Peter Costello on the other hand still seems to be hedging his bets remaining on the back benches perhaps waiting for Malcolm to fail at the next election.Costello disappoints me,he has the ability yet does not seize the moment.

Gosh, I posted this last September! I near fell off my chair when I re-read it: its almost as if I saw this question coming.

Nothing has changed my view.

I can only note the similarities with Morris Iemma, and recent events in NSW.

See: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6424#94783

Funny, Graham - when Costello (mostly) ruled himself out the other day I predicted to my partner that Turnbull would assume leadership today. We discussed the possibility that it would be more prudent for him to wait a while, but we ultimately agreed that he wouldn't be able to resist having a go.

As it happened, EMO Brendan handed it to him on a platter, thus committing political suicide.

I didn't listen to 'Australia Talks' tonight for a change, but it wouldn't be at all surprising that the "small l" Libs would find him attractive. Further, I think that he could well retrieve much of the Centre Right vote that went to Labor at the last Federal election.

I think that the ALP's in a bit of trouble - there seems to be a momentum building at State level to oust Labor governments that are increasingly moribund or otherwise on the nose, and some strong Conservative leadership such as Turnbull might provide could well be a catalyst in the State branches.

Of course, as a Green I find this moderately depressing - but it's not as if Rudd has been very effective thus far in actually achieving anything substantial in terms of the environment and social justice, notwithstanding some nice symbolic acts early in his tenure.

Australian politics are about to become quite interesting again, I reckon.

Dear Graham,

When Malcolm Turnbull first appeared on the
scene with his Republic initiative it was obvious
that he was on a fast track towards the top job.

And now it is only a matter of time before he
achieves it.

The only obstacle still in question is Peter
Costello, despite his denials.

But Turnbull is determined, and will undoubtedly
outlast all obstacles.

People like him which always helps.

If anybody wasn`t worried about Rudds leadership before then they had a wake up call yesterday in Parliment.

Fancy putting a replublic before the economy. I can see why Rudd said that. He has a one track mind trying to impress a certain group of voters. Rudd had strong support from the migrant vote.

Possibly the only ones who are still happy with Rudd are those he 'promised' more migrants to and easier entery into Australia.

The story on TV last night about the Muslim with seven kids that all live off welfare - while plotting against us is going to become a politcal issue between the two parties.

I think Malcom will pick up on the public outrage of this alone.
( Remember how they won the last elections)
Australians wont put up with that no matter who Kevin 07 promised to get votes.

Malcom has learned a thing or two from Howard who had the knack of tapping into the publics feelings.






I think the Libs will unseat ALP at the next elections.



I see Macolm Turnbull as our next PM.

The polls will prove he is the right choice and he will have a Honey moon period.
I just can not understand how it took so long.
He was always the right man.
In posts before and after the last federal election I spoke about a fresh start and new untainted leader.
It is no longer a one horse race.
I however again go on record saying Rudd is doing a great job, and will win again.
The problems Rudd faces are the same ones Turnbull must confront.
Bar one very important one.
Industrial relations.
My early contentment with promised changes appears miss placed.
It is far more than likely in an effort to reign in true radical actions of SOME unions Rudd may not restore some rights.
Last weeks ALP booths went unmanned, mainly because this states party had become property of a few.
The race has two horses now interesting.

I have too little understanding of Malcolm Turnbull to make comment of him, although I heard him today on radio observing how Krudd & Co had spent the early part of their governmental term talking down the economy during a period of financial uncertainty amd instability and producing another "recession we have to have".

For articulating that observation he gains a significant number of my support points.

I hope we will see a more pragmatic approach to government business in the future and a Coalition willing to move on from licking its wounds to hounding the swill out of office.

Turnbull comes across as strong and self-assured and this has to be a big plus in his ambition to become PM. His past record shows him to be a winner which is a mandatory requirement for a successful Prime Minister. He also argues his case based on an understanding of the basic truths of a situation, rather than just politicking - a good sign in a leader.

From what I've seen so far, he's the Liberal equivalent of Bob Hawke.

This was probably a wise move by the Liberals.

Turnbull has the appearance of strenth and resolve and even the negatives that have been mentioned, like the hot temper, won't work against him as a leader.

If Turnbull's leadership can unite the Liberals and he can soften some of the more Conservative rough edges, reduce the influence of the NSW far Right they stand a real chance of winning the next election if Rudd does not get his act together.

The Liberals will also be a better Opposition when not focussed on internal politicking.

Kevin Rudd.
'The People' wanted a change. Sunrise gave them Rudd or Hockey. The Libs weren't going to give them Hockey so they chose (me too) Rudd.

With his history in the Public Service, Rudd has no initiative, no business acumen and needs a committee decision to go to the toilet. No doubt his partner would have made a better PM.

I don't like either Turnbull or Rudd. Both Global warming alarmists, both dissatisfied with a political system that cannot be bettered.

The antidate to this Rudd y Government is Joe Hockey.

Turnbull will be great for the Liberals. He'll get them their longed for poll bounce, will do the ALP some damage on economic management and climate change (depending on who he picks for Shadow environment), he'll eat into their small l liberal base and energise political debate.

He won't win the next election though. When opposition leaders have spent too much time opposing they come to be seen as whingers. He's too shiny and urbane to attract the swinging surban battlers. His brashness will frighten people. And the things about him that most attract the ALP supporters the Libs need to win government are the same things the Right in his own party won't tolerate.

My pastor spoke out on politics last friday night when he said he asked The Lord one day, some years ago in prayer, about politics and He said The Lord showed him a door with the name "politics" above it and when my pastor said he looked inside the door... there was nothing there.

I guess that says it all regarding politics for those of us who have their hearts and minds set on gathering lost souls to Jesus.

People come and go...one political party comes after another... millions of words are spoken...yet in the end only The Lord remains:)

<<"Turnbull's elevation seemed to have energised the small "l" Liberals who were...saying they were rejoining the Liberal Party.">>

Well, ONE said she was rejoining, but I agree that it probably represents a larger trend.

Whenever I read a breakdown of conservative philosophy, I conclude that I'm a conservative. The championing of freedom, removal of government interference and the pursuit of individual happiness are all high on my list of priorities. Then I watch the conservative political parties in action, and all I see is cynical vote-buying, fearmongering, lying as a matter of mere convenience, and an abslolute refusal to acknowledge that the world has improved in any way since 1955.

Turnbull's an arrogant bully, but if he can transform the creaking Liberal party into a genuine liberal party, he might get my vote.

Mr Turnbull seems similar to Malcolm Fraser. He is in the wrong party. He would do well to be with the Greens. Even CJ is reluctant to criticize him. Maybe their love of Henson art bonds them.

I think Mr Turnbull being the head of the Liberals will keep Labour in power a long time. Maybe Peter will come out of retirement and take the leadership when/if polls are not favourable closer to 2010.

Mr Turnbull is also on the global warming bandwagon. As the economies continue to crash the indefensible lies from the High Priests will be unpopular as people are taxed on the basis of lies. Hopefully a new conservative party based on a bit more substance and less spin (like Labour and Liberal) will spring up.

Alan Greenspan and others are talking about a once in one hundred yr global financial meltdown.People have traditionally voted for Labor Govts in really tough times,perhaps this is why Peter Costello is keeping his powder dry on the backbenches.Does he expect Malcolm to fail come the next election with people voting with the devil they know?

Peter Costello could well be planning for the following election since the harsh world of private enterprise may not well be all that rewarding in comparision to a comfortable Govt job.Peter may well be happy to sit on the back benches and wait patiently.

runner: << Even CJ is reluctant to criticize him. Maybe their love of Henson art bonds them. >>

You really are a dingbat, runner. Did you read what I wrote?

I have no liking for Turnbull, but I can objectively recognise that he has ideas and qualities that many voters are likely to find attractive. He's certainly the best talent the Libs have got.

You may be some kind of weird fundy prude who is still obsessed by the Henson storm in a teacup, but you seem oblivious to the fact that the wowsers lost that little spat. The majority of Australians don't share your prudish and godbothering views, including Malcolm Turnbull.

That only makes him more attractive to reasonable and educated voters - a demographic that doesn't include people like you.

I was going to follow in Col's footsteps and say that I don't know enough to really comment but that I like some of what I've heard.

Then I read runners post and if runner's agin him then there is probably cause to be for him.

Hopefully he will bring to an end the dominance of the coalition by the religious flat earther wanabe's. Fingers crossed.

R0bert

The man is the best choice, that does not put him in the chair after the next election.
Just 12 months ago the world was a different place.
We had our fears about foreign debt and a financial crash but now those fears have grown.
Change is on great change, by the time some one else posts in this thread a very real chance exists a world wide recession could be in place.
Labor is decaying at some state levels defeating themselves in recent polls and very lucky time exists before they confront the electorate.
Rudd has every chance to win the next election.
But can Turnbull base his plan for the future on spoiling tactics?
So proud when in power of budget deficits it seems at a time we surely need one the conservatives are leaving their own policy's behind for short term victory's.

Belly,
The -irrational exuberance - of Nov O7 has quickly evaporated.
WA’s gone, NSW is going.
Rudd’s not talking Iemma’s calls.
Reba Meagher is not talking to Premier Rees.
And Michael Costa is not talking to anyone.

No wonder you’ve got heart burn!

Pretty soon Rudd, Gillard , you and a few other die-hards will he holed-up in some stockade just this side of the black stump- the last refuge of an endangered species.

I was just reading a letter of thanks to Kevin Rudd from Muslim leaders pre election.
Perhaps we might all know Mr Rudd what promises were made?

Or is that a 'trade' secret. Personally I do not think anybody has the right to make statements agreements promises understandings without informing the public.

I for one would like to know what undertakings Rudd gave pre elections.

We know he promised to icrease the intake of migrants after the Howard Government announced the numbers we to decrease.

Perhaps this is just one thing Macolm could get to the bottom of.

Does anybody recall hearing Rudd announce the outcome of meetings with Muslim leaders and what he did and didnt promise.?

I wonder if we wrote to Malcolm Turnbull and requested he ask that of Mr Rudd in parliment=

Or how about this question-
Mr Rudd as `Shadow Minister` of Foreign affairs and Trade- Why did you refuse to disclose to the Australian public at the AWB enquiry the money to Saddam H was not only money from wheat but the funds from the Live Animal Export trade

Why did you head for the hills and keep quite.

Was it not your duty once this information was passed to you to announce it to the public.?

Are you aware Mr Rudd of large donations given by such compaines to politcal parties

Leaving aside Mr Rudd the then Howard Governments position regarding live exports -I would ask you again why you would feel you should not as `shadow Minister` informed the public, especially when being requested to by a large amount of the Australia public.

I hope Malcom is prepaired to ask some questions like that.

If he is prepaired to do that he will have endless support.

After all we pay them to report to us 'honestly'.

The Australian public need an honest Prime Minister who puts the country before his personal agenda. Thats not Kevin 07.

We hope it might be Malcom in the future.

I think he is the right man for the job. We already know Kevin 07 isnt.

CJ Morgan

If not looking at photographs of nude little kids makes me a wowser then I am happy to stay that way. You can continue to defend those sick enough to photograph kids like this and call it art.

Horus at least your post is worth commenting on.
How crimson rude to divert the thread yet again to animal welfare an inch at a time.
We know every word of the so called pre election promises this is not the thread for it.
Horus no one ,not one of us knew things internationally would get this bad.
It will get worse soon.
The glue that held some truly shabby ALP governments in power was John Winston Howard.
My posts for years have highlighted my truly held concerns about the NT government.
WA had its own idiots.
NSW farmed fools, even Brendon Nelson could beat them.
But in truth after the coming thrashing in the polls a true chance exists they will be returned in NSW.
Not the idiots but a new team your leader helped put in place by ignoring his own party policy's.
What a good outcome for us all, two idiots ignore party policy and both fall, the last one will soon.
Malcolm is a leader he is the right man at the right time.
But you must not build your hopes on your own biases, he has a mountain to climb to win the next election.

Malcolm Turnbull will have broad electoral appeal but will he have the support of his Parliamentary iberal colleagues. If he loses the next election then Julie Bishop would stand a good chance of being Liberal leader. Julie Bishop appears to have more right wing policies than Margaret Thatcher.

Can the Liberals win the next election? As the global credit crisis or recession widens it is likely that living conditions for the average australian are going to get tough by 2010 - guaranteeing a change of government.

Voters are wondering if Malcolm is in politics to get even richer or did he get rich so he could enter politics.

Malcolm is a bully and so is K Rudd, but K Rudd still managed to get the top job. I think Malcolm is more socially progessive than K Rudd (which could be most inaccurate perception from my small corner)

Belly
You seem to have a problem understanding what is and isnt off post.
This is just like the time you demanded to know why pale was in the Rudd Trade china thread.

I mean really belly- "Trade" - 'China' Rudd "TRADE"

It just so happens the question we want Macolm Turnbull to ask Rudd was about AWB and live exports.

Live exports is very high up the list as political problems in this country.
Our organisation works in this area.

* So it would be pretty normal I would suggest that our comments about Malcom Turnbull and Rudd would sit around that area.*

May I suggest If you dont have the knowledge to understand the connection you learn bit more before you claim we are off topic.

Our Organisation welcomes Macolm Turnbull. We are of course aware he is a farmer so thank god he will sort Tony Burke out.

I can only imagine Macolm Turnbulls comments when he found out Rudd appointed Tony Burke as the Ag Minister. Tony Burke knows 'nothing' of agriculture or farming.

Macolm Turbull must have been as horrified as we were to hear of Rudds irresponsible actions by putting Burke anywhere near agriculture.

So there you go belly we have even told you a "reason" we approve of Macolm Turnbull.

Also what we want Macolm Turbull to ask Rudd in Parliment.

I cant see whats off post about that.

Do learn a bit about politics for our own sake- or stopping attacking our organisation on every posts making false claims.

Its painfull watch you make a fool of yourself. I get no pleasure out of pointing out your ignorance time and time again.

But you insist on trolling from thread to threat rubbishing our organisation.

Typical of ALP mentality I suppose. You dont like us because we set you straight in a few areas where you were totally wrong. I am sure there are some things that YOU might understand when we dont.

However in this case 'once again' we are NOT off post.

For goodness sake grow up.

PALE&IF: << Our Organisation welcomes Macolm Turnbull. We are of course aware he is a farmer >>

Really? There I was thinking he's a lawyer and merchant banker. How is he a farmer? I doubt that he's ever had dirty fingernails.

Belly's right. PALE&IF's up to her usual tricks.

morgan
Just shows how much you really know doesnt it. The real problem with people like yourself and belly morgan is you lack the knowledge to make the connection.

Macolm Turnbull is a farmer- "owns a farm" and has knowledge in the area.
I am not saying he is going to agree with RSPCA on live exports because the power of the political donation by shipping agents is enermous.
I am saying we welcome Macolm Turbull "because at least he has knowledge in the industry."

I suggest you get you facts straight.

I think Turbull is the right man to expose Rudds irresponsible move by appointing Tony Burke who has no knowledge of the industry.

For that reason alone we welcome Macolm.

Now if you and belly have a problem with that too bad.

It is not off post and your only claim to fame is like belly coming in to take swipes at people. Your comments are always two liners attacking people.

I suggest YOU both stick to the thread and post on comments about Macolm Turbull and why you think or dont think hes the right man for the job

As we did in our posts.

Er, PALE&IF - are you aware of the term "Pitt Street farmer"? You know, the kind of guy who lives in the city and buys a farm as an investment or as a hobby - like Turnbull did. To characterise him as "farmer" is an insult to real primary producers. Like I said, I doubt that he's ever got his hands dirty in his life.

Kevin Rudd was born on a farm - does that make him a farmer too?

<< I suggest YOU both stick to the thread and post on comments about Macolm Turbull and why you think or dont think hes the right man for the job >>

You mean like I did here

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2144#45461

and here

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2144#45555

Or did you just leap in and try and push your own barrow without reading the preceding discussion, as per usual?

So we are not to talk about Malcolm, it is a subject that will be discussed a great deal .
He in my view is the man for the job, maybe not yet a winner, I stand by my view he will not win the next election.
It is however time I took my own advice to Nicky.
I refuse to play verbal tennis, to answer charges that are knowingly fabricated.
To be part of diverting yet another thread into one of personal insults.
I would like to see a few polls about Turnbull.
1 to all voters is he the best available Liberal leader?
2 can he win the next election?
3 to conservative voters can he rebuild your party?
In truth my answers are .
1 yes
2 no but maybe the one after
3 not now or ever will I qualify to answer this one warts and all I remain ALP.

Belly

*How crimson rude to divert the thread yet again to animal welfare an inch at a time.*

Er, Actually belly we were simply replying to your above post. We were not off topic or rude. Its as simple as that.

It was you who made the personal attack directed yet again at us.

We simply stayed on post and explained why we welcome Turnbull.

Our organisation has some experience with Kevin Rudds Ministers advisors contacting us pre election- ( Where they claimed they were going to oppose live exports)
Of course two weeks after the election that Minister was dumped and replace with someone who know zero about farming.

Our point was A I think Macolm will do very well as the leader of the opposition .

I agree it will be hard to win the next election but not as hard as you may think.

Rudd is no longer popular with the elderly and many others.
I think there will be a big swing back towards Turnbull.

Of course I could be wrong.
Morgan
Again I must remind you pale does not post to you nor do we want you addressing posts to us.'

PALE&IF: << Morgan
Again I must remind you pale does not post to you nor do we want you addressing posts to us. >>

Er, you did post to me, you goose. I'm entitled to post what I like within the rules, and so are you. It's up to you whether you respond to me or anybody else who points out your inanities.

I think everyone has the right to post to everyone else, and everyone also has the right to ignore others' posts. Maybe some of you might use your second right more extensively or these posts are going to get bogged down in personal exchanges that just make the forum unattractive.

Belly, I have run a poll on leadership, and it looks promising for Malcolm T. I'll have the report up later today and an OLO article for Monday.

Dear Graham,

I saw the tail end of a program on TV
last night where John Hewson was giving
his opinion on Malcolm Turnbull.

Interestingly Hewson felt that Turnbull is
merely a "fill-in" for now. That he
won't ultimately be the Liberal leader, but
that Costello will be.

It seems that Turnbull is not all that popular
within the ranks of the Liberal Party.
Hewson felt that Costello is sticking around
"for a reason." That he'll accept, once they
beg him to take over. Costello is it seems
(in Hewson's opinion) a more popular choice
within the party.

Anyway, I ended up by scrawling Turnbull's
biography on the web. I must say, it's
impressive. I learned a lot that I didn't
know previously.

The man, from his background, seems like a
very well qualified and capable leader.
But, a bit of a maverick - which is why
perhaps he's not so popular, within the
"old die-hard" network. A pity, 'cause
Turnbull would capture the imagination
of the young, and anyone with a bit of
"nouse."

He's far more impressive than stodgy, old
school - Costello (in my humble opinion).

It would indeed be an interesting race in the
next election if Turnbull was to lead the Liberal
Party.

Let us not think my ALP has lost my support, it never will.
But politics is not a game.
It is like it or not running our lives.
I have zero doubt, none, that Turnbull is the right man.
He will lead his party for years to come.
Our country and both party's for that matter need men such as Rudd and Turnbull to take us to new challenges.
Bad opposition leads to bad government.
Who can Dennie it was only after he got total control J W Howard lost the plot?
Work choices was a death knell for his party.
And my NSW ALP only got worse as the opposition did.
At a seminar for IR just yesterday it was made very clear to me that Rudd has no choice but to follow a new path.
That path is just one of the new directions we all must take.
Turnbull is a real chance if his party controls the very right.
Not next election but the next.
12 short months ago we lived in a far different country than today.
I still stand by my claim Labor will win the next federal election.

Dear Belly,

According to John Hewson - Labor will
win the next election.

He said that according to our past
history - all elected Governments in
this country have had two terms in office.
Except for one. I can't remember the one
Hewson mentioned. But you'd know.

Anyway, I hope he's right because I too
feel that Kevin Rudd deserves to be
given the chance to accomplish what he's
determined to do.

For the good of us all.

I've just been analysing the polling and you can see the first instalment at http://whatthepeoplewant.nationalforum.com.au/archives/003393.html.

I think a lot of people would agree with you about giving Kevin Rudd time, but I think a lot of people are also starting to think that he hasn't done much so far with the time that he has been given. If he doesn't get a move on pretty quick smart I think he could get into trouble. Support for him is soft.

Dear Graham,

That could be due to the fact that most
people want things instantly.

They don't see the bigger picture.

Kevin Rudd doesn't believe in "quick fix"
"band-aid," solutions. He believes in planning
long term. And getting things done properly.

Besides, he's achieved more in the few months
he's been in office than the previous government
did in their 12 years.

Tactically Malcolm has it all over Kevin.It has taken Kevin all this time to realise that the public see some serious flaws in his leadership.His memory is good but he lacks the intelligence to span the wide spectrum of conflicting dilemmas we all face.

All Malcolm needs to do is throw in a few barbs here and there;since Kevin is now on the back foot,be patient and trip up Labor with their own stupidity.They are in trouble already and the honeymoon is barely over.Could impotence be their problem?

Dear Arjay,

Impotence is a good topic to bring up right now.

I was watching the "Question and Answer" program
on the ABC, Thursday night. And it was pointed
out that with all the budget surplus that the
Liberals claimed they had left, why didn't they
use it when in power? Whereas, now they are
demanding that the Labor Government dip into it
to fund various Liberal proposals.

With the current global economic trend it is wiser
to increase the surplus for the unknown future
instead of blowing it irrationally.

Graham
( Standards)
If a poster addresses s crude material to myself -I have the right to say. = Do not address me in future. As a matter of fact I have the right to say that to anybody, anywhere in life, be it walking down the street or wherever.

I exercised that right and I trust you appreciate that.

.

Foxy you’re kidding.

What’s he done? Apologized to the Aboriginal People.

Yes Ok. What else. Has he made it better for them do you think.
The USA council has been traveling the outback investing in regional areas to work with aboriginal people.
Wow that’s interesting. I wonder why he’s not spouting this from the roof tops.

Isn’t it nice America in their time of troubles thinks of Australian Aboriginal People...

Kevin Rudd has done nothing more than order review after review at the cost of the tax payer.
No foxy we shouldn’t be spending the bit we have in surplus.

I remind you of the one hell of a mess the ALP left this country in. Look at the Labor State Governments. What a mess.

Macolm Turbull I hope will keep raising the issue of what is happening to the public money.

‘However’ If Kevin Rudd is going to spend ‘our’ money then what type of person is he to leave single pensioners struggling.

He himself and his own staff members have stated there is no way they could live on a single pension.-

Yet Kevin Rudds done nothing.

That’s right Nothing. ~ Malcolm Turbull will ask some real questions and ALP knows it.

I predict Kevin will be the shortest serving PM in this country.

Some very good advice has been given about the right to ignore.
I intend to take it.
We, both sides of the debate, should not let our biases run away with our hopes.
Yesterdays polls show a far different result than soft support for Rudd.
Yet in truth doubts exist even in his own party.
Those doubts as always are biased and based on fears he will take his own path not the one we each wish.
His outstanding start has seen us as a country very much better of.
Yes I am concerned at the failure to pass legislation in the senate, at the spoiling tactics conservatives would have screamed about if we did it.
In truth Turnbull may change that, he stands to gain real ground if he acts in the interests of the country.
In my posts above I repeat myself often, a bad habit but one that tells of the fact Turnbull impresses me.
He is the right choice.
I remind posters federal Labor is far different than some state governments J W Howard ruled strongly after he lost every state, so too could Rudd.
Keys to Mal's success include he must be given the time he needs to rebuild his party.
He has outstanding skills in finance and should have been shadow treasurer.
Liberalism, it is very different from the NSW right of his party, return to it not chase a thing under threat as America is facing new directions.
However I do think in ten years we have as much chance of Turnbull leading us as Rudd, or it may well be Bill Shorten.
We have to except the world economy will see bitter voters blame any one but their own greed for lost money.

Dear Belly,

I found a few quotes on the net
that I think you may enjoy:

1) Vote Liberal
It's easier than thinking.

2) "I will make a bargain with the Liberals.
If they stop telling lies about Labor.
We will stop telling the truth about them."

I got a grin out of that Foxy.
And like you think it both funny and true!
Working short days because of my traffic smash till Wednesday.
So watching politics even more.
No not possible but am watching.
I still think Turnbull is the man for the job.
Just hoping he is not going to be a spoiler.
His team may want that from him.
But as Mrs Howard's little lost Johny said you can not fatten a pig on market day.
Substance.
That is what Mal needs.
No surprise in the polls, surely conservatives knew the Doctor was dead from day one?
Anyone remember his say sorry speech?
Turnbull only has to have substance to get even better polls.
Do not however hold your breath, his party is far better at spoiling than policy's.

Malcolm Turnbull is impressive and a natural leader.

I am surprised, however, that he has stepped into the leadership of the opposition so early. He is more the type you want closer to election time, late enough that the public haven't discerned any weaknesses and early enough to build up a following.

As for the theory that Costello is simply waiting in the wings to take over - how many times in the past 15 years have we been hearing that? Costello is a spent force who manages to survive more on the energy derived from possibilities rather than actualities.

I also believe that Rudd will win the next election, while the leadership change has improved the Libs ratings, Rudd would still win an election easily if held right now.

Dear Fractelle,

I couldn't agree with you more.

A lot of people seem to be buying into the negative spin
that the opposition is deliberately spreading
about Rudd. "What he done?"

Well, my goodness. He's done a great deal.
He's only been in power for nine months and
he's apologised to the Indigenous People, started
a buy-back program on water resources, signed the
Kyoto Protocol, a carbon-trading scheme is in the
works, he's gradually providing schools with
computer services, pension upgrades are in the process
of evaluation, he's trying to cope with the global
economic disaster as it affects Australia, he's negotiating
Asia-Pacific cooperation, there's a proposal to withdraw troops
from Iraq, he's increasing taxation on luxury goods to
facillitate the growth of the national surplus.
And much much more. The list goes on.

Compare this with building your home. You have to find
the land, and buy the land, submit plans for planning
approval, obtain budget estimates, produce documentation
for building permits, obtain costs from builders, sign
contracts, build the house, and move in.

You'll be lucky to achieve this in 2 years.

How does building a house compare with running an
entire country? You get the picture...

Things don't happen instantly - unless you have a
magic wand and live in Fantasyland.

I consider what this Government has done
is not bad for only
nine months in office.

People should give them at least several years before
making judgements.

And not buy into the negative spin that the
media presents.

It took the last Government 12 years to claim that
they've achieved anything.

Criticism is easy, when you don't have to produce
the results.

As for Malcolm Turnbull - he's just stepped in
as Party Leader.

He's yet to prove himself.

"Malcolm Turnbull is impressive and a natural leader. I am surprised, however, that he has stepped into the leadership of the opposition so early."

Fractelle,

Turnbull really had no choice. Once Nelson was rolled, if Malcolm passed on the leadership, his credibility would have been dented and, like Costello, he'd be criticised for squibbing. Anyway, Malcolm wants the job.

In years past, the party would have let Nelson stay until about 6-12 months out from the election. But, the high-flux environment politics is carried out in nowadays means that the less natural leaders get found out more quickly.

Another part of the reason Malcolm stepped up so early could be because the party fancies it has some chance at the next election and is covering its bases in case Rudd goes to the polls early.

On Costello, he has apparently just taken up an international anti-corruption job with the IMF, so it looks less likely he'll be up for the Liberal leadership in future.

I agree about Rudd. He would have to really stuff up to lose the next election. If Turnbull doesn't win in 2009/2010, the PM's job will certainly be up for grabs in 2012/2013.

Such a lot of opinions about a man who very few Australians really know.
Personal insults like "arrogance" are thrown about by people who are voicing their own inadequacies.Was Winston Churchill without arrogance?
A leader has a great advantage if he looks the part.Actors like Ronald Reagan don't need to be capable, they have plenty of advisors.

I said Turnbull would be the Liberal Leader on the day of the election, simply because he looks like a Prime Minister.The latest polls show that despite nothing changing on the opposition side with regard to policy, they have had a very substantial lift in popularity.
We who take an interest in politics are the minority of voters.

The average voter could'nt be bothered to vote if it wasn't compulsory.Our opinions may be interesting to us, but we're impotent in judging how a political figure appears to the public at large.

Foxy

We appear to be simpatico on this topic.

RobP

The Libs were completely free to validate Nelson when he called the poll - for the time being. They could've waited and given the appearance of being united until a more auspicious time for Turnbull.

If Rudd is as smart as he appears, then he will definitely win the next election and Turnbull will be at risk of losing the leadership as often happens when the Opposition loses a federal election. The Liberals are still a very divided party - Turnbull was not voted in by a huge margin.

However, it is early days for all.

Diploman - your point about having an opinion on On-Line-Opinion was?

Diploman that post is strange.
First you give credit to your opinion by telling us you knew on day one Turnbull would lead.
So did many of us
Then you say ? well what did you say?
Doesn't matter as you seemed to say our opinions do not matter.
Turnbull got that lift in the polls.
In my view he is going to get more but why the wait?
Costello? gee bury that idea he never had the jam to challenge or lead, he never will.
If he did he could not ever win, if he bought every ticket in a raffle some one would forget to draw it.
If John Howard's wife stood against poor Dr Nelson she would trounce him.
She already has Costello's scalp on her belt.

Malcolm Turnbull's clearly the best choice for the liberal Party. Clearly, by a country mile. And that is precisely why they are inevitably destined to be massacred at the next election. Before the next election it's my prediction they will, through necessity, dump Malcolm Turnbull. The replacement will have to resurrect the party at relatively short notice before the election. This will hand the election to the Labour party on a plate.

By then then economy will have recovered, the share market will be booming yet again, and the Liberal Party will yet again be immersed in party wrangling and power plays. Labour will present itself at the election as a conservative and competent manager of the economy, and they will romp in.

In Parliament, Kevin Rudd in government has clearly displayed (to anyone except hardened Liberal supporters; I think they all come here to post) a debating superiority that is manifestly obvious. The poor Liberals, with their current hypocritical and phony cry for single pension increases (which they FAILED to do in their long period of government), show how they simply don't understand this basic issue. It's badly backfired on them, and they can't now back away, they are obliged to see it through to the bitter end.

The Liberals are now a bunch of amateurs, without John Howard. He was the only person who held them together, with Peter Costello as help. Peter Costello is a GREAT 2nd in charge, but unfortunately for the Liberals, would be an even greater disaster as leader than Malcolm Turnbull will prove to be.

Almost every time Mr Rudd stands up in parliament he demolishes the inept opposition: The Liberals are reduced to screaming and yelling across the floor. At least Mr Rudd usually attempts to explain things in detail, with intelligence. I've lost count of the number of times Mr Howard answered with a sarcastic "yes" or "no". The difference between the two men is like night and day.

Mr Rudd will prove to be a great Australian Prime Minister. The Liberal Party currently has no answer to talent like that.

Yes Fractelle, I suppose my point is that if our opinions are worth much they will be cancelled in an election by the vote of a person who has no opinion but a perception that a party leader looks like a Prime Minister.Malcolm Turnbull had to take the job when it was offerred, but his chances of becoming P.M. might have been better if he'd been able to take over the reins when the parties were in the home straight to the next election.

Despite people claiming Macolm Turbull isnt a farmer, I thought it might be helpful for you all to know 'something' about him.

He has =Beef and Crop farms.


I agree with Graham Youngs comments that support for Rudd is soft.

He needs to do something other than say hes having a review on a anything and everything he asked about.

Parliment today certainly has not helped him either. The rise for single pensioners was passed by Senate today- However will be axed by Rudd. SHAME

Kevin said himself"- quote=
*No people cant live on a single aged pension anymore*
Then! turns around and say I am 'not going' to increase their money by $30.00.


Howard would never have 'addmitted' to the fact you couldnt live on a single pension in the first place.

Thats the difference between an experienced poly and a inexperienced.

Rudds Staff also have complained about temper outbursts and abuse towards them if others dont agree.

You know I never heard one word of complaint in ten years from Howards staff.

I am not a Howard lover by a long shot but since Rudds inexperience is showing.

Lets see if I am right. Lets see if Rudds Government blokes the rise for the elderly singles despite addmitting they cant live on it.

So Foxy do you think its right to leave our elderly eating dog food and bread?

"Howard would never have 'addmitted' to the fact you couldnt live on a single pension in the first place.

Thats the difference between an experienced poly and a inexperienced."

PALEIF, I don't much like Rudd but if you are right about Howard not admitting to that I'd prefer Rudd's honesty over denial that there is a problem.

Neither approach helps those doing it tough but at least the harm is not compounded by lies. Certainly fits the "caught between a rock and a hard place" concept.

R0bert

RObert I think and hope you understand the issue of the pensioner increase.
Mal may well have helped draft it but it was never going to be passed and he knew it.
It was a weapon, nothing less.
Law forbids money bills like that coming via the Senate.
Right now we have to understand if in power the conservatives may well have not passed it.
The government [ can any one doubt it] will after the review increase pensions.
Right now it has never been more important that we spend wisely.
The Elephant in the corner is that we know baby boomer's are about to test our ability to pay pensions.
We are in good hands this term and after the next election.
Rudd must not fail us all by giving too much weigh to the thoughts of some who do not truly understand the issue.
And your future prime minister ,yes one day, must not abandon financial responsibility for short term gains, or he will follow Nelson out the back door.

Hi Robert

The Howard Government had already worked on it. Thats the difference.
Rudd as shown his lack of experience and nothing more.

How much do you think CEOs of large companies have had in pay rises - and others?- Heaps.

My point was going to show, if he trips himself up, on something as simple as this how can we feel safe given the concerns we now face.
Now more than ever we need a smart leader.

He has done nothing to stop pay rises of the rich depite huge losses from these companies.
The elderly single need it now for times are harder than ever.


Belly If people want kids it should be a law in this country that they can afford them


Sure Rudd will increase it by some probably around feb next year. Pity about those who need it now isnt it
A long time to eat dog food dont you think.
The people wont forget Macolm Turnbull fought for them to get some help right now when they most need it.

Theres very little support for Rudd anymore and its not even a year gone by.

Those results speak for themselves. Nothing to do with me I am just saying it like it is.

Give him a few more years and I reckon he could go down as Australias most unpopular PM ever. Of course there is a chance he might start to listen to some good advise he has been given already.

Lets hope so shall we because its makes no difference to me if its ALP or the Libs in power.

So long as we have the right people with the right intentions.

He may even surprise us all yet. I hope so

Threads die after posts like that.
We are not compelled to agree with every post.
I am grateful for that.
We did get into an interesting subject.
Turnbull is not my enemy just because he leads the other team.
He is the right man for the job, but.
Yes but he must get substance and policy's.
Only the truly unaware do not understand the Howard government if returned had no intention of continuing the one of pensioner payment.
No provision had been made for it in forward financial estimates.
And only a few of us, could not know the pensioner rises could not be passed by the back door.
That money bills come via the lower House.
That the whole substance was to shame Labor into taking on conservative policy's.
Very few of us do not want big rises across the board in all pensioner category's and soon.
Most of us understand that the review is huge, it looks at so much that effects us all.
Just one it must confront big superannuation sums being spent so pensions can be paid, do we pay the greedy as much as the needy?
Emotional clap trap about dog food is just that.
We elected this government to govern, to do it in a responsible way why do we ask it not to do so now?
9 short months ago, in fact over the last 12 years Turnbulls team had its chance to fix this.
Why did they fail?
Turnbull must understand spoiling tactics are not going to put him in office.
I am reminded of Foxys quote, it will become an important election slogan.
If the Liberals stop lieing about us we will stop telling the truth about them.

The total hypocrisy of Malcolm Turnbull, regarding pension increases, in CLEAR FOR ALL TO SEE; that is those who WANT to see the truth.

During his 4 or so years in opposition Malcolm Turnbull did nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, about lobbying for any pension increase whatsoever. His party was in government then, they could have acted IF THEY WANTED, and Malcolm Turnbull did nothing, NOTHING.

YET.....

SUDDENLY he develops a heart: SUDDENLY he cares about pensioners. He drafts legislation for the senate that he knows, in advance, is unconstitutional and has ZERO hope of success. He doesn't give a STUFF about pensioners, and he never did! He's telling a lie......the lie is, he cares about the pensioners' financial plight.

In government, Labour is going about pension increases in the responsible way. Under labour, pensioners have ALREADY received utility entitlements (and more) that provide an EXTRA $900 or so per year..... the Liberals didn't do this, LABOUR did it!

In government, Labour is acting upon pension increases (pensions WILL be increased.....ALL pensions, not just old age pensions). In government, the Lberals provided ZERO "base" pension increases during their ENTIRE period of government. They did NOTHING.

The Liberals don't give a stuff about pensioners. We have phony legislation from them, a "sudden" faked interest in pension increases, an ignoring of the 2 million Australians on pensions but not on "old age" pensions. The Liberals are practicing TOTAL HYPOCRISY, and are displaying why politicians are held in contempt by many thinking Australians. "Honesty" is a foreign word to most politicians. On the parliament floor in debate on this issue, the Liberals are being made to look like hypocritical, amateurish fools. And the Australian pensioners are watching.

Malcoln Turnbull is displaying hypocrisy and dishonesty regarding the pension issue, and those pensioners will remember that at the next election. And rightly so.

Oops, I meant to write, "during his 4 or so years in 'government' ".

"The total hypocrisy of Malcolm Turnbull, regarding pension increases, in CLEAR FOR ALL TO SEE; that is those who WANT to see the truth."

Steady on, JW. I think this is a criticism that should be levelled at John Howard or Howard's Cabinet more so than Turnbull. Howard ruled that Government with an iron fist, and Turnbull was only a Minister - Environment Minister, at that - for about 1-2 years of his 3 years in Government.

MT first has to work his way to the top before he can have a real influence on the party. I get the feeling that Malcolm wouldn't much want to help the most needy, not because he doesn't think it's a good thing, but because he's more interested in doing other things. He's probably counting on Labor to help pensioners as it is much better at that sort of thing anyway.

Malcolm was a front bencher, and he had the right to speak publically that he thought old age pensions maybe needed to be increased by at least $30. He said NOT ONE WORD, year after year after year. Now he supports fake legislation on the subject (that everyone knew in advance could not possibly succeed in being passed). SUDDENLY it's 'supposedly' become very important that the pensioners get the rise NOW, and not in a few months: This is the base rise that they didn't get under the entire period of Liberal government: But all of a sudden, it's now 'urgent'.

It's complete and total hypocrisy, and utterly unashamed and blatant. It's horribly backfired on the Liberals. They were hoping for easy political gain at the expense of old age pensioners. Malcolm Turnbull is their leader, he supports the Liberal policy and the buck stops with him; nobody else.

RobP that was a good post, I am aware Turnbull is running on another's plan in the short term.
The pensioner fiasco has Nelson all over it.
And he is just in the chair and it will take time to truly lead.
However the fact is how many will change their vote because of the lies about pensions?
Obstructionism is not policy making, right now many are concerned at a senate not truly representing majority views.
Readers should not be surprised if we do not wait too long for an election, of both houses.
It is my view Rudd should put all lost bills back to the Senate right now.
So he can do what he must in time call an election of both houses.
Now is the time Turnbull is no mug he will get better.
If he is not just too sneaky for his own good.
An election held today would forever remove that miss named rat bag family first and we would all be better for it.

JW,
You forget the Howard Government did give bounus to pensioners without them having to beg as they are now. Things are much harder than they were back then and the icrease is needed RIGHT NOW.
Something Macolm Trurbull has rightly pointed out.
In contrast Rudd said He agreed they could not live on what they get but- They would have to wait until 2009.
Now the way I see it is its not going to win him too many votes.

In six months its become impossible for these single elderly people to live. We are dealing with things as they are NOW and Rudd has said NOW people cant live on it.
SO they need it now and not to talk about how it was before the price hike.
Its sad people dont care about our most elderly who paid the taxes so people like you could have a better life.
This isnt something to play with or to win points. Its a real need by these people who are buying dog food for goodness sake. They need it now.

Labor are now in a real dilemma.If they use the surplus to shore up an impending economic catastrophy,then they will look like economic incompetents.So the Libs have put them in a bind over pensions.Tax revenues could soon be shrinking due to a global economic downturn and to spend the surplus so soon, will make them much weaker come the next election.

Labor will have to be Mr Scrooge until the next election so they will have funds to bribe the pensioners and other minority groups.

PALEIF, you say pensioners need the increase now and praise Malcolm for asking for it. You're misunderstanding Malcolm's motivation. If Malcolm really cared about pensioners he would push for an increase for ALL pensioners. What about the several million pensioners who miss out under Malcolm's plan? Does he care? Of course not, if he did he would include them. Under his plan they get NO increase, not now, not ever. By concentrating only on old age pensioners, he thought he could obtain the high moral ground and thus political advantage. Pensioners know he completely ignored their payment amounts during the previous 4 years he'd been in government. Pensioners know the deceit the Liberals are now showing. Pensioners know the Liberals are not genuinely interested in increases for all pensioners. The Liberals have shamed themselves because of their political, disingenuous legislation they introduced into the senate. They don't particularly care about pension increases, they care about gaining the political advantage. They've lost badly on this issue.

SallyG,
Pensioners need the increase now. This is only for single aged pensioners because their level of funds isnt anywhere near than of two aged people.

Things have before not just tough but impossible for these poor old darlings living by themselves.

Also as far as I am personally concerned serious changes need to be put in place urgently re many of these so called invalid pensions.

I dont mind if someone is really disablied but it would appear by looking around in biz hours there are thousands on welfare that could and should get a job like the elderly people who worked and paid many taxes.

I bet Rudd gives all this money out for people to be paid a wage to stay home and have babies. We will know very soon.

Now there is another thing the people who built this country didnt get.

Well if he can pay somebody to plan to get pregnant to stay home for three months on pay he can help our sinlge elderly now.

And' if those people planning to use our tax dollars for breeding puropses had any common deceny they would be telling Rudd to fix the single elderly that are going without food first!