PERICLES..

Now.. FOUNDATION documents..and my 'selective' use of them. Honestly.. that is a total joke.

Assertion.

"Mohammad used 'revelation' to justify him gratifying his sexual desires with a procession of women"
This caused his wives to become Jealous, and then.. suddenly, he had 'incoming' revelation to justify his behavior.

Now..see if you see it in the following: (from the 33rd Surah.)

Verse 50 "The women MOhammad may marry"

[O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, ....
and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers.]

NOW.. 'TIME PASSES'...and no other verse is 'revealed'.. there is no verse 51 at this point.. so what's happening 'on the ground'?

He is enjoying the fruits of that 'a believing woman' coupled with 'temporary marriage' (which had not been forbidden at this time)

how do I know this ? :) simple.. I ask his young child wife who says:

Muslm Book 008, Number 3453:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: I felt jealous of the women who offered themselves to Allah's Messenger and said: Then when Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, revealed this:" You may defer any one of them you wish, and take to yourself any you wish; and if you desire any you have set aside (no sin is chargeable to you)" (33. 51), I ('A'isha.) said: It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire.

COMMENT:
DID_YOU_SEE_IT? wakey wakey... You now know the exact and unambigious circumstances for HOW and WHEN and WHY the 51st verse of the Quran was "revealed"

The question is.. do you see what it says about Mohammad and.. his motives?

Do you THEN see why people (including the Muslims of his day) have 'problems' with this chain of events?

Carpus,

<<I've interviewed some Sikh's ad hoc and found 2 of 3 said they would use their kirpan offensively to defend themselves and others.>>

I've interviewed some Sikhs ad hoc and 9 out of ten said they don't use the kirpan offensively. Is your scientific polling better than mine?

<<The mere presense of a deadly weapon on the person of a school child means that OTHER children/ youths can access it...So..in teenage schoolyard altercations..anything could happen.>>

As I asked before - and you met my request with stunning silence - when was the last time this "deadly weapon", the kirpan, was used in an assault in an Australian school?

<<It [kirpan] is against Australian law.. that should be the end of it.>> No, it's not and you know it. You are lying again. We've been through all this before.

<< Just like Muslims cannot practice polygamy or female genital mutilation.>> Can you please make the connection clear between the kirpan and female genital mutilation.

I see you've ducked the question AGAIN - which religions in Australia are "traditional" and therefore not wanting to change the law, and which are "non-traditional" and therefore likely to "cause chaos"?

I read the Bible as you recommended and found myself confused. Jesus actually preferred the company of sinners but you're saying as a Xian we must not sleep in the same bed because we might catch homosexuality from the sheets?

"and just who sold Saddamm those nasty chemicals? "

This turns everything into the non-credible zone, and should not be used to secure other premises.

Firstly, the weapons, rather than being terrible, represent only a graduation of knowledge, and had Sadaam or any Islamic regime have gotten hold of these weapons - they would surely make US look like angels. US displayed majestic forebearence and responsibility with her arsenal, and should not be maligned for showing greater knowledge prowess.

Secondly, the weapons were supplied to some Islamist groups for a legitimate purpose: to counter the cold war, as with the Talibans. What Sadaam and the Talibans did with these weapons after the cold war - is entirely their own doing, and only confirms these Regimes and radical Islamists have a terrible agenda for humanity at large.

We must thus thank America for both, confronting the encroachment of Stalinist communism, and for exposing the Islamist agenda. Here, those nations which did not participate in confronting the cold war - should be addressed for their cowardice - specially the European states - because communism started in Europe's backyard - not America - thus Europe should have been in the front rows of the Afghan and Vietnam wars.

When we see that terrorism has increased in Iraq since US invaded this country - it means the correct buttons have been clicked: when one exposes a nest of poisonous wasps - it's success is marked when we find many wasps there, and it is a failure when we find no wasps. We saw many terror groups in Iraq - we also saw some 700,000 Iraqi corpses from the past 22 years of Sadaam's reign. Imagine what this regime would do to non-muslims with WMD? It begs the question - how should the world deal with Iran's Regime? I find those who attack the only nations confronting terrorism - as having blank resumes in confronting this threat - as if there is anything more demanding or important!

"Jesus actually preferred the company of sinners "

Oh!? - I never knew Jesus confronted Rome! News to me. Then he must have sacrificed himself along with 2 Million other Jews - protecting the right of freedom of belief and defying Rome's decree to worship its non-divine Emperor? If so - this is about the first good thing to come from the Gospels. Which verse?

'WHEN FREEDOM OF BELIEF - BECAME MIGHTY ROME'S GREATEST WAR"

Spikey.. you read the Bible ? Which part? Apparently one or more of the Gospels.. I sure hope you read a modern language version.. the old King James is like reading encrypted verbage from another planet.
I never cease to be amazed that the translators of the Quran use King James English :).. weird.. very weird.

Anyyyway... Jesus did not 'prefer' the company of sinners as you say.
He came to seek and to save the lost- ALL the lost..including you and every contributor to this forum.

29Then Levi held a great banquet for Jesus at his house, and a large crowd of tax collectors and others were eating with them. 30But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, "Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"

31Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." from Luke 5

Now...spikey.. do you see the very last bit ?

His Mission: "To call sinners.... to... repentance"

That includes you, Joseph, Morgan, Pericles, Celivia, Fractelle everyone. It includes me, though in my case I am called to 'on-going' repentance as an attitude of faith because I've made the step from 'unbelief' in Christ...to 'belief'...

Joseph fails to recognize, that it's Jesus way..or the AC/DC highway to..... unowhere.

Jesus did not posture Himself as a revolutionary in the sense that Joseph would like.. but consider this.. every revolutionary movement against Rome ended in disaster and mass slaughter, and Rome STILL 'won'. (Masada)

Jesus came with the simple message "Repent..and Believe..and receive the Kingdom of God in your hearts with the simple faith of a child"

AND THE GOSPEL WON against Rome. Yes, it did have a large body count of mutilated Christians.. but in the end..Rome surcumbed to the power of that message within 300 yrs. No army..no fighting.. no military.

Your ability to contradict yourself within consecutive sentences continues to amaze me, Boaz.

>>Now.. FOUNDATION documents..and my 'selective' use of them. Honestly.. that is a total joke.
Assertion.
"Mohammad used 'revelation' to justify him gratifying his sexual desires with a procession of women"
This caused his wives to become Jealous, and then.. suddenly, he had 'incoming' revelation to justify his behavior.
Now..see if you see it in the following: (from the 33rd Surah.)
Verse 50 "The women MOhammad may marry"<<

The transition from describing my comments as a "total joke" to doing exactly what I suggested, is positively breathtaking.

You draw your own uneducated conclusions, and use them to excoriate a religion that happens not to be your own.

It is rabble-rousing, Boaz. Nothing more, nothing less.