The main point to be made re the creation of a new State for the Aboriginal people of Australia is;

It can be made as an offer to the Aboriginal people for consideration.
Because it is an 'offer of reparation' it does not need to be sanctioned by the Aboriginal people. They are free to accept the offer or reject it.

Given that recently I've seen signs on major roads near me.. saying "Welcome to Kulin country"....I thought it had already happened!

But... the main problem with such an idea are as follows:

1/ Most Aboriginal groups are tied to local geography...not to a sense of nationhood.

2/ If an area was given to 'them'.... which 'them' would run the show?

3/ Foreign interests would quickly seek to influence them against our own interests.

It wouldn't work.. and is silly to even consider.

It must be catching on; our road signs here say "Welcome to our City of Geelong" too.

1. The Aboriginal system of nationhood is tied to the democratic ancient, cosmic laws dating back to time immemorial.

2. we would not be 'giving' anything...it has never been "ours to give" We "took it"

3. Ah ha there's the rub! You've hit the rusty old nail on the head. "Our own interests" have been the root cause of a nation's greed and their lust for power.

but thanks for your comment. June

Dear GERBRAN,

It will not work considering that the Indigenous
people are tied to their land through centuries
of tradition and heritage.

A prime example of mixing tribal groups, away from
their native lands, is in Kempsey, N.S.W.
This today, has created bigger problems then
leaving the groups in their native lands.

Another example on a larger scale is the former Soviet
Union and Yugoslavia, where different national groups
(tribes) could not exist together, except under severe
dictatorship.
Today, those unions have disintegrated as would a State
inhabited exclusively by Indigenous people of different
tribal groups.

It simply would not work.

So is this new state to operate with custom barriers and passports?

Wil this new "State" be beyond the ambit of the commonwealth?

Will it impose its own taxes and generate its own government income or will it exist on subsidies finded from the taxes raised in the other states ?

What foreign policy values will this new state adopt?

I would like to see a few unambiguous answers to a few simple questions before I comment.

Further on this topic...

We do have a "pseudo," Indigenous State in the
Torres Strait Islands.

And, if we move all the whites out of the
Northern Territory, the Indigenous people
will have their own State.

As far as how this State would function?
It would function as every other
State. Revenue could be collected through
tourism , native industries, mining, and
allocations from the Federal Government.

Was this a proposal that arose out of the recent
2020 Summit in Canberra?

We all can find reasons as to why a State created for the Aboriginal race of Australia cannot work. Taxes, industry, mining interests,subsidies, welfare are a few of the curly ones. But after all we have had 200 years to work on the potential problems. However there are a some other questions that need to be answered.

Why did the American indigenous (Indian) people suffer the same fate?
Why did the North American Inuits suffer the same fate?
Why did the Brazilians suffer the same fate at the hands of missionaries?

What is the special quality possessed by indigenous peoples from all over the planet that it seems needs to be suppressed or destroyed?

I am told that Dr.Hugh Schonfield had a vision of a Servant Nation joining together to serve the nations, forming a brotherhood of man in miniature and serving mankind. I could think of no race on earth better suited to fulfill such a vision than our own Aboriginal race.

Dear Gerbran,

You're missing the point. Fifty thousand years of
Indigenous cultural existence tied to their land
cannot be changed overnight.

The American Indians were deported into Reservations
on virtually "wasteland" far from their cultural
heritage and to this day they haven't been able to
recover.

Their culture was more advanced than the Australian
Indigenous culture. So unless we want to totally
destroy them - it is best to leave them in
the tribal lands of their heritage.

What every culture in the history of the world wanted
was to expel the invaders. In this case, we are the
invaders. We are forcing a way of life onto them, that
they don't want.

It is time that we stopped playing the "Big White Father,"
and allow their elders to determine their own future.
Help them if they ask, but don't enforce white-man's
policies.

As for creating a new State for them. They have a State.
They have their own tribal lands. And the white man
should respect that.

Why are they fighting for their "land rights?"
Because they want what was taken from them back.
They want their own national identity. Even if it is
on a small scale by our standards. However, look at
Luxembourg and Malta in Europe, and many other small
island nations of the Pacific, some of only a few
thousand people.

Don't look at this issue from the white man's point
of view. Look at it from the Indigenous point of view.

GERBRAN: << I am told that Dr.Hugh Schonfield had a vision of a Servant Nation joining together to serve the nations, forming a brotherhood of man in miniature and serving mankind. I could think of no race on earth better suited to fulfill such a vision than our own Aboriginal race >>

I thought GERBRAN's original post was pretty silly, but the last one's plain ridiculous. "Servant Nation" indeed.

You are right Foxy, fifty or sixty thousand years of culture cannot be overturned overnight but 200 years of forcing a way of life on to them can. June

Dear GERBRAN,

Of course it can.

But sadly, whether it will be is another matter.

It would mean regarding our Indigenous people
as both equals and special, recognising them as people
who had prior occupation, sovereignty and governance.

As the late Aboriginal leader Rob Riley said,
"But it's simple... unless you give us back our
nationhood, you can never claim your own."

Gerbran it isn't going to happen.Most of the Aboriginal race have more Anglo genes than Aboriginal.The same scenarios have happened in our genetic past,whereby cromagnon man was replaced by homosapiens etc.
Eventually the Chinese race will have own our land.If they cannot invade it ,they will simply buy it.Big fish eat small fish.

*What is the special quality possessed by indigenous peoples from all over the planet that it seems needs to be suppressed or destroyed?*

Well reality does not go away, when we close our eyes and wish it
would. Fact is that that the world is full of one nation expanding
and indigenous people losing out. Thats the reality of history.

I see it a different way. If Indonesia or China had decided to
set sail and claim Australia, (there were relatively few locals here
to resist them), the indigenous people would most likely now be
far worse off then they are now.

So count yourself lucky that it was Britain :)
.

I think all you supporters of an aboriginal state are 'stuck in the dream time'

Two crucial issues need to be addressed for this to be a success.
1. 90 to 95% of their working age population need to work so that taxes can be raised to fund the financial requirements of such a state. After all, this is how our existing states work today.

2. They have to be able to control the issues that are the cause of most of their current day problems (alcohol)

So unless you can see this happening then you are simply 'dreaming'

As yabby says, thank your lucky stars that the British colonised this country.

Yes Arjay and Yabby, you are both right, in fact, genocide or obliteration from the planet would have been kinder and more humane than the slow 200 years of indignities suffered (so far) in silence. That does not and cannot excuse the behaviour of any nation who believes that 'might is right'. Hopefully, we are evolving towards a future that is not as dim and miserable as it is presently painted?

To rehctub
1. Have you noticed the mental breakdowns, family disintegrations and the general despair becoming rife in communities caused largely by
"overwork"; "overtaxation"; and the "overburdening" of individuals, particularly men, in today's society? Can we survive 60,000 yrs. of hard labour?
2. When Aboriginal people regain their dignity and manage and mind their "own business" alcohol will cease to be a problem But, we had better hurry up...just as in European society, young people are rebelling against manipulation and materialism.

I asked a few simple questions at the beginning of this thread.

I would prefer those questions were answered before I contribute in some areas to this debate.

However, since we have a few more posted comments on which to express some opinion or reflection

“I am told that Dr.Hugh Schonfield had a vision of a Servant Nation”

John Newton (1725-1803) had a similar vision and made a lot of money out of it.

Except he did not call them ‘servants’

Arjay “Most of the Aboriginal race have more Anglo genes than Aboriginal”

I feel this is likely, as a consequence of simple human lust.

It erodes and makes stupid the concept of a ‘nation for aborigines’, if the aborigines share a common genetic parentage with the rest of Australia.

Yabby “So count yourself lucky that it was Britain :)”

A sentiment I have expressed myself in previous threads addressing aspects on matters associated with this one.

However, the biggest problem I have with the entire concept is this

Dr Martin Luther King dedicated his life and died promoting the values, virtues and ideals of

Human Integration

Even lacking the essentials which I asked for initially, I feel this proposal would work in a direction 180degrees about from that ideal.

Promoting segregation of peoples based on race.

We all know what to call a ‘white man’ (in the southern states of USA) who would suggest such a thing.
I remain at a loss to what we call an aboriginal when they ask for same.

I am still reeling at the proposals for a 'servant nation' and the segregation that such a 'nation' would require.

Does no-one else find these ideas completely reprehensible?

Well that's one way Australia could take up where apartheid South Africa left off....

*When Aboriginal people regain their dignity and manage and mind their "own business" alcohol will cease to be a problem*

Gerbran, dignity is an individual mindset that we each have to
deal with, it is not about race. All that society can do is
give everyone an opportunity. Wether people take it or not, is
up to them.

Some will blame everyone but themselves for their failures, others
will thrive and succeed in their lives. Take a look around you.
There are people of every race and gender, some thriving, some
failing. Yes, its a common human foible to blame the rest of the
world for our problems, but at some point we each have to deal
with it as individuals and realise that we can bring about change
if we wish. When we do, even if it means picking ourselves up by
our bootstraps and making that change happen, you would be
amazed at how proud we are of ourselves. Our dignity is returned.

GERBRAND,
Have you always lived in fantasy land or is it drug induced?

Why do you think other aboriginals would want to live in your aboriginal state, your Utopia? The aboriginals that I have known are too smart to go back to dreamtime. Most people in any ethnic group are practical.

This forum is a microcosm of our society. Where are the "ABORIGINAL" contributers to this topic? There's **NONE**!

It sounds like a whole bunch of non-aboriginal people discussing what they "believe" is, and isn't, proper for the aboriginal people of Australia. Non aboriginal authorities have directed, managed and ruled the aboriginal nations (plural) in Australia for well over 200 years. This forum continues the "tradition" of non aboriginal people discussing what's best for aboriginal people. Even sympathetic comments are "still" from non aboriginal people (myself included)...the point is, aboriginal people "themselves" need to be heard.

I invite anybody here to walk down the streets of Alice Springs at night, to witness the squalor, debilitating and extreme violence, stench, endemic intellectual impairment through alcohol, homelessness and hopelessness that is the result of attempts of non aboriginal authorities to IMPOSE non aboriginal solutions. Try talking to some of these aboriginal street people here......communication is nigh impossible on anything but the most basic level; English is NOT their language, it NEVER has been; our English is a forced and imposed language upon them. "Our" culture is a FOREIGN culture to them. We have systematically destroyed and debilitated a once "free" race of people.

And we don't give a stuff. We want them either out of the way, or as much as possible "like us".

The vast majority of Australians have ZERO knowledge of aboriginal people who are not like like them (ie aboriginal people who are not part of their "mainstream" economic/social system) .....and they don't care anyway. Heck, it's a case of, "the whites won and the blacks lost, so deal with it, stuff you" attitude that so many people have in this country. These knuckledraggers don't want to hear "aboriginal" opinions that don't agree with their own opinions....they want aboriginal people to look and act and think and talk just like non aboriginal people as much as possible.

Chances are we won't be hearing an "aboriginal" opinion on this topic, because like I said we're just a microcosm here of the wider society. And hardly anybody cares anyway.

My browser, or whatever you call it is packing up so before I disappear, hopefully not forever! I think you should all read what you have been saying. There is no clearer example of apartheid than exists in Australia. Europeans need permission to visit Aboriginal reservations. Most Europeans have never met a person from the Aboriginal race.

This is NOT an Aboriginal problem. It is OUR problem. We are the inheritors of a Tasmanian genocide. We are the inheritors of 200 years of a MORE SUBTLE VERSION OF GENOCIDE. DON'T EVEN BOTHER TO ASK AN ABORIGINAL PERSON WHAT HE OR SHE THINKS. It is NOT their problem.
The Aboriginal people have been lifted up and dumped down every few elections and they are so fed up with our mealymouthedness they probably couldn't care less. This will be yet another venture into the void so why should they bother themselves. Be prepared for the 'white' Aboriginal to enter the fracas. Their jobs could be on the line?

GERBAN Your comments
To rehctub
1. Have you noticed the mental breakdowns, family disintegrations and the general despair becoming rife in communities caused largely by
"overwork"; "overtaxation"; and the "overburdening" of individuals, particularly men, in today's society? Can we survive 60,000 yrs. of hard labour?

Well yes I have but I seriously doubt their problems have been caused entirely by the system.
In most cases they all have a mobile phone bill, many have a grand plasma on the wall, many drive expensive cars, or boats or both and, in most cases they are all on hock. One can’t blame society laws for their failure to manage their own personal debts and spending habits. When I bought my first house I had to save a 30% deposit, now you get given a deposit. When we had our children we got nothing, now they get 5 grand. A labourer earns $30 per hour so how come they can’t survive on this hey. Cause they WASTE MONEY!

2. When Aboriginal people regain their dignity and manage and mind their "own business" alcohol will cease to be a problem
…… Not worth commenting on, at least not until you and I share the same planet!

But, we had better hurry up...just as in European society, young people are rebelling against manipulation and materialism.

Yes well we agree here however what I see as the main problem is that we are bringing up a society of wimps as opposed to men as was the case 40 years ago. Young guys are more interested in how their hair looks or if their hands are cracking as they are in becoming a man.
Don’t blame the system as much as the ‘do-gooders’ who just can’t keep their noses out of other peoples business.
Bring back the cane, the strap. Let the local cops give the young ones a kick up the behind and send them on their way. Then you will see some changes in our society.

What a stupid idea, since Aboriginal people are the first people of Australia they should not have to pay tax and should have FREE private education not a state, how is that possible with different tribes and languages across Australia? It makes me wonder how many people will put up hands and say they are Aboriginal, when really they are not.

Fractelle: << I am still reeling at the proposals for a 'servant nation' and the segregation that such a 'nation' would require.

Does no-one else find these ideas completely reprehensible? >>

I did, and said so - but I'm quite astonished that only Fractelle and I have thus far commented on this extraordinary idea.

The idea of a separate state for Australian Aboriginal people is ludicrous enough, but the suggestion that they could constitute a "servant nation" is appalling.

I shall ignore the hackneyed comments and cut to the chase. L.N.Lane (The Investigator 1988) wrote; Tribal domains all over Australia were usually five or six sided fitting together something like a honeycomb. Overall, tribasl numbers were similar. Tribes numbering less than 500 and hordes numbering 30 or 40. Tribal holdings were small in Victoria where the climate produced a plentitude of edibles.........Each tribe spoke a distinctly different language from all the other tribes....Most Aborigines were bi-lingual....Wathaurong territory impinged on at least 5 other tribal lands...it was not uncommon for them to meet under truce.....Diplomatic concerns prevented bloodshed during the period of the corroboree......

Tribal boundaries lay along rivers, ranges, the sea or biological discontinuities....end of quotes

How many of us are bilingual? How many nations would have the nous to cease fighting for a corroboree? In fact what nation could possibly last as long as the Aboriginal nation? I think if we bother we can learn how to run local, state and federal government from the very same people who are still being sneered at and classed as incompetent. Thank you to all for your comments...better than none at all.....June

my website is www.geocities.com/ryanjune54/

CJ

I missed your post, I am very glad to know that there is someone else out there who finds Gerbran's proposals as objectional as they are nauseating.

Where is Rainier? We need your perspective.

Good point, but that was back then, not now. I just cant see this happening, as some tribes (mine included) just cant reconcile and they continue to behave this way, its not like the old days with the old people, its due to abuse, neglect and government. I reckon the young ones forget what our people fought for and I find education from both Aboriginal and non is the key, that is how my family got out of it and I noticed having non Aboriginal people learn our history and my culture etc forms reconciliation. At my school we did cultural awareness, stolen generation excursions, learnt Aboriginal language, history and science. It helped my school greatly and there was a strong feeling of acceptance and unity as not many Aboriginal kids went to my school and it was quite prestigious.

CJMorgan “I did, and said so - but I'm quite astonished that only Fractelle and I have thus far commented on this extraordinary idea.”

Fractelle “I missed your post, I am very glad to know that there is someone else out there who finds Gerbran's proposals as objectional as they are nauseating.”

Actually, you two were not the only ones.

Not even the first ones.

(But you would probably both rather choke to death than ever agree with me . . . is that coughing I hear. . . )

Dear Fractelle and CJ,

Have neither of you read my post either?

My Dear Foxy and Col

I stand corrected.

I guess I was too traumatised by the thought of an apartheid state designed to provide servants, just blinded me to all else.

Perhaps, it is also Gerbran's complete failure to note that her ideas are not acceptable.

To his credit, Col Rouge did indirectly compare the idea of Aborigines constituting a "servant nation" on Sunday. My comment was on Saturday, and it's not the first time that Col and I have agreed on something :)

Foxy, I can't see that you've commented at all on the appalling "servant nation" proposal in this thread.

Oh dear!

Oh dear oh dear oh dear oh dear!

"It seems what we have here is a failure to communicate."

GERBRAN, who signs off within her posts as June, first raises the concept of what she calls a "Servant Nation" in the seventh post to this thread. She promotes the Australian aboriginal race as her ideal candidate for this identity. I would infer from her posts that she envisions such status as constituting some sort of exemplar, with Australian aboriginal people being in a position of privilege, not subservience, with respect to the rest of the world.

CJMorgan, Col Rouge, and Fractelle seem to have taken this 'Servant Nation' concept or proposal as a sanitized euphemism for the enslavement or subordination of the Aboriginal people of Australia in some new incarnation of apartheidt. Understandably, and predictably, they have all spewed at the prospect of its implementation.

I think they have totally mistaken GERBRAN's, or June's, meaning.

Lord Seajaye, Col, Fractelle: Make Google your friend! Foxy, stand back, and be thankful that sometimes an auctioneer wont take a bid no matter how much you wave your hand about.

GERBRAN (or June) says, in post #7, .... "I am told that Dr.Hugh Schonfield had a vision of a Servant Nation joining together to serve the nations, forming a brotherhood of man in miniature ......"

Googling 'Dr Hugh Schonfield' yields this link as the first offerred up by the search: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_J._Schonfield . Click on it.

GERBRAN has told us in post #21 "My browser, or whatever you call it is packing up so before I disappear, hopefully not forever! ......"

It's all in a turn of phrase. "I am told", instead of a link. "...before I disappear": She knows she is going to disappear!

What a shame! She has only arrived on OLO within the last few days. If only she had asked, someone from among us could have warned her of the unsettling effect capitalised userIDs could have with respect to establishing credibility.

Let the games and recriminations begin!

Crikey Mr. Gumpp, I had no intention of disappearing, it was my inability to manage the finer points of my computer that sent the green light flickering to OFF.

Thank goodness someone has bothered to look up Dr. Schonfield.

In 1989 I found out? about a 'thing' called the Mondcivitan Republic and found it interesting enough to write to them in London.
I received a very informative letter from the Secretary-General 1972-1982 stating that Dr. Schonfield died Jan. 1988. At a meeting with his three daughters it was agreed that the work of the moncivitan Republic has ceased and as no-one had come forward to continue the work on the basis of the principles laid down in the Provicional Constitution of 1956 that "Hugh" regarded as an essential format, the bulk of the Republic's Archives will be housed at 27 Delancy St. for the present but may be removed to France or even Boston later on...

The letter from the Secretary General finished with..

"While Hugh Schonfield and the Mondcivitan Republic are sadly no more, his vision remains. An adherent and close associate for many years once wrote to him " I am deeply convinced- and this conviction grows as time goes by - that your vicion of A Servant Nation joining together to save the nations, forming a brotherhood of man in miniature and serving mankind, is as valid as it ever was."

The letter finished with " That vision will not die and, at the right time, Hugh's dream will surely come to fruition. Yours in service....."

Where else should we look to fulfill the dream of a Servant Nation than our own, not as yet defunct, Aboriginal nation.

Known for their practise of the cosmic law of the universe for umpteen thousand years, known for their practise of sharing, this latter not being a strong point in other ancient tribal nations, I would say without question our long suffering Aboriginal Nation fills the bill. Never fear, Mr. Gumpp, I'll be back while that green light still flickers on.

Forrest - of course I had a look, but I was less than enthused.

Just another cultist frootloop with some superficially attractive ideas, if you ask me.

The "servant nation" thing is just another utopian fantasy, but nominating the Aboriginal "race" as suitable candidates adds a decidedly unsavoury dimension to the delusion.

OK, I confess, I did not go back and reread Foxy's and Col's posts. I took them at their word.

The first time I scrolled through, I thought that Foxy was giving the idea serious consideration and Col, well, due to pompous style and self-reference I have a tendency to skim his posts (eg "I would like to see a few unambiguous answers to a few simple questions before I comment." and the questions that would meet your standards Sire?) - if anything leaps out at me, then I will read thoroughly.

Quite frankly I don't have the time: Whereas, Gumpp clearly has given his propensity for colourful bon mots. Without really contributing much BTW.

CJ, you are without sin:
"I thought GERBRAN's original post was pretty silly, but the last one's plain ridiculous. "Servant Nation" indeed."

I claim the high moral ground on spelling out very clearly that the 'king has no clothes.' Well that's my piece of smug for the day.

Still wondering if GERBRAN isn't just being hugely ironic, hopefully she is.

I am being HUGELY serious Fractelle...once again here is my website

http://www.geocities.com/ryanjune54/ and here's my other one to try

http://www.geocities.comjune.ryan76/

Sorry, I messed up. my websites are
http://www.geocities.com/june.ryan76/
http://www.geocities.com/ryanjune54/, up there Cazaly

I did look up Dr Hugh Schonfield and
I thought that my response (lack of
it) regarding
this issue was rather obvious.

Whereas,I made it quite clear in all of my posts
where I stood about the creation of a
new State for the Indigenous people of
Australia.

Gerbran

Thanks for the links.

I do agree that Aboriginal people should be able to take charge of their lives and that their self-esteem has been annihilated since white settlement, BUT I don't see how apartheid is a solution and I still can't get my head around this 'service nation' idea.

Part of the problem is a widespread xenophobia where many people are incapable of accepting difference, be it race, culture, sexual orientation or religion. I know my achilles heel is formal religion, however I digress.

Your links show that central Australia should be declared Aboriginal Nation. How do you propose that be done? Round up all people of aboriginal descent, place them on trucks and trains and transport them out there. Hmmmm, this scenario is reminding me of something I heard about that occurred in Europe circa 1930 - 1945.

PS

Apologies Foxy, but could you show me the post you are talking about because I can't find it - clearly a failure to communicate.

Dear Fractelle,

There is no post. That's my point.
I felt that the Servant Nation
was not worth discussing.

Instead in all my posts I clearly
stated my position regarding the
creation of a new State.

Actually I misinterpreted the use of the word ‘servant’, mainly because of the way it was presented, as “servant nation” applicable to a particular ethnic group.

Gerbran is sponsoring for a separate state for aborigines.

Schonfield was promoting a bible-backed version of ‘socialist internationalism’ where we are all world citizens and the 'nation state' does not exist.

http://www.schonfield.org/12517.html

lists Principles of the ‘Mondcivitan Republic’

you even get a bit of video too.

It is the typical ‘airey fairy’ twaddle of those who actually think

the meek will inherit the earth and everything will be eternally wonderful.

It starts with a presumption to people not being what people are and would therefore founder because of what people are.

It is full of aspirations and short on practicalities.

It assumes the world is run on good men ignoring the aspirations of bad men, (like say Joseph Stalin or Hitler)

To quote from the web site

“The original constitution was suspended as it did not prove possible at that time to construct a nation on these”

And it is not showing any sign of being resurrected.

GERBRAN,

So pleased to see you were able to resolve your problem with your browser. I had feared the worst.

At the time of my first posting I had only attempted to use the first address for your website, the one given in plain text in your seventh post to this thread. Copied and pasted into the address bar, it for some reason didn't work. I have since used the same web address, given this time as a link in your ninth post, successfully.

Fractelle,

"Quite frankly I don't have the time: Whereas, Gumpp clearly has given his propensity for colourful bon mots."

Where are the bon mots in my post here? I was just making observations. But punctuation, m'dear, punctuation! Should not the sentence above have appeared: "Quite frankly I don't have the time, whereas Gumpp clearly has, given his propensity for colourful bon mots."? To use a capitalised 'Whereas' is to use a very formal and solemn pre-cursor: a thing not to be undertaken lightly.

"Whereas the people of New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, ....."

"Whereas experience hath shewn ......."

Besides which, I've been busy involved in a carbon sequestration project for the last few months, which is why I had not been posting often over that time. Now that I have a little time off, I read before I post. I trust you don't begrudge me this, er, recreation?

But speaking of bon mots, Belly came up with a beauty in his thread "Fuel prices and empty roads" with respect to Gods gift to Australian politics, Belinda Neal: "a woman as handy as an ash tray on a Harley". ROFL. Your encouraging words to him were not misplaced.

On another matter: "Without really contributing much BTW.". Noted. [Forrest reaches for little black book, and writes.]

Well, like Lennie McPherson, I have done the best I could with what I had. Let those who have eyes to see, see. I am currently experiencing deep, deep satisfaction, ifn y'all know what I meyunn. I shall say no more here GERBRAN. Good luck.

Mr. Gumpp, sah, Ah am so glad yew 'ave cottoned on and that yew are gettin' such deep. deep satisfacshun. But satisfacshun ain't what it's 'bout is it Mr. Grumpp...Gumpp?

ps Do you think GERBRAN might 'disappear' after all Mr. Gump...Gumpp