Harambolas you put forward a rather negative viewpoint. I thought we had come a long way from being birthing machines and domestic slaves.

You can spin anything to sound bad - when someone says you are nothing but a 'birthing machine' one tends to cringe and become defensive. Fact is women are the only ones capable of bearing children and giving birth is a wonderful experience (albeit somewhat painful). Watching your children grow and develop is also wonderful.

As for domestic slaves...well I thought we had got over that one a few years ago. While nothing is ever perfectly equal my experience is that while women might still do more work around the home, the husband usually (not always) holds the burden of being the prime breadwinner.

Maybe this is just my 40s something perspective, but women have a lot more choice and options available to them than they did in the 1950s and 60s. There might be room for improvement but I would argue that these improvements encompass better options and life/work choices for both men and women.

Hi pelican,

I'm sure giving birth is a wonderful experience, as would be raising children. But my point still stands, which is that most men don't do enough and many women let them get away with it.

It is kind of strange that in today's society, a supposedly more liberated one, gender roles still constrain. For if they didn't, as many think, then any role, any one at all, would be possible. In other words, women and men would be free to be whomever, or whatever. Now I'm not saying that society totally controls us, yet it doesn't let us be who we want. And if it did, then it wouldn't.

Haralambos, with your last post I entirely concur.

Haralambos, your last post could apply equally to women, as to men.

Dear Vanilla.... if I was on 'their' side I'd be campaigning for the same injustices... practicing the same habits.. and lurking in wait for any uncovered female... and I'd not let them out of a school which was on fire unless they had 'correct religious dress on'....

My GOODness you know how to insult someone.. I mean REALLLY insult them..

You can call me all manner of thing, (and do :) but really, without even knowing me you have placed me in the camp of the Yemenis/Saudi's and other 'Islamists'?

You can be sure of one thing Vanilla.. even IF I was tending toward the idea of 'believing' (if not practicing) some kind of hair(not head) covering for women in Church, it would be a gentle persuasion approach and a choice by them..not a 'law'.

All you are doing when you speak thus, is demonstrating just how little you really know of the idea of 'grace'...

The biblical pattern for bringing about behavior change is:

"And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

1Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

If you equate 'that' with the description of Yemen, mate..you do need therapy because you have a problem.
blessings.