Mr Right: "It might also make a few of you realise that you are not as desirable as you think you are..."

This so obviously reflects personal bitterness that it just washed over me. Either the guy really doesn't like sex with women, or he's just trying to "stir things up", or (most likely) he has had hurtful emotional experiences with women and blames the whole gender. Either way I just thought we were all ignoring it.

And I think males bits are beautiful.

Antiseptic,

I think you and Bronwyn meant the same thing. She said, "However unrepresentative it might have been, it is male behaviour at fault here." That is, it's not male behaviour in general but *A* male's behaviour. And his idiot friends.

From the stories you've told here and elsewhere, I can safely say you know the most hideous group of women I've ever heard of. (I hope this isn't too offensive — I gather they're wives of friends rather than actual friends?) I don't think you should be offended by their dumb ideas, but then I am not offended by Troy Buswell either — I just think he's an idiot.

For a start, if these women think men fart more than women they are in need of a basic medical textbook. Then perhaps some instruction on how to negotiate within a marriage — all members of a family should be able to feel comfortable in any room, I would have thought, so if one group really is going to make a room unpleasant why isn't up to them to air it out? My husband is a bigger clean-freak than me, so if I've been sitting in my study all day and it's got a bit stuffy and pongy and there's paper everywhere, I clean it up and air it out a bit before he wants to use it. Just good manners, innit?

If my partner made me shower before greeting them because they couldn't stand my smell, I think I'd be thinking they/we needed some time on the couch. That isn't a happy marriage, surely?

Ah Antiseptic, I just reread your post and realise you point is that what is at fault is *women's* humourless response to Buswell's pretty poor gag.

In that case I disagree with you. I thought my response was rather funny in parts.

Vanilla and Robert,

Yeah, you're right re Mr. Right. But actually I was looking for a way to prevent this from turning into a forum for U.S. to once more fight his personal demons in public.

Antiseptic. Did you read through all the posts here? We don't find it funny. Why does this make us humourless? I'm sure that if you hang around with people who are so hung up on the natural human function of expelling excess gas you have probably come across people who find anything to do with THAT subject as excrutiatingly funny as they did when they were 7 or 8. Do you? If not, does this mean you are humorless - or simply that you are are an adult? If so, well then we obviously have different senses of humour. Its why some people fall in a heap over Monty Python and others prefer Jim Carey.

Why must we accept something we find bad taste/juvenile/insulting or whatever? So far not one woman here has said she finds such behaviour amusing but on other threads many of these same women have amply demonstrated that their sense of humour is alive and well - and kicking ass.

p.s I agree with Vanilla too (while hoping these women you so often allude to are not bosom-buddies)that your friends' wives don't seem to have much in common with me or the regular female posters here. Why on earth judge us because of them. Do you think all men fit into one particular mould and all women in another?

Romany: "Did you read through all the posts here? We don't find it funny. Why does this make us humourless?"

That much is obvious. Did you read my own comment? I make an effort to make my point clear and I don't think I failed this time. I referred to your "humourless response", which it is. No comment on your general humour at all, although I'm beginning to think I may have been a bit close to the bone in that regard as well.

Romany: "on other threads many of these same women have amply demonstrated that their sense of humour is alive and well - and kicking ass."

I don't disagree. Isn't it a shame you can't follow their example.

My point was to illustrate the double standard that you are trying to manufacture.

An example: "your friends' wives don't seem to have much in common with me or the regular female posters here. Why on earth judge us because of them"

Erm... Buswell has little in common with me or most of the regular male posters here, why on earth judge us because of him?

The fact is that men and women, as Foxy pointed out in another thread are going to both attract poor-taste gags about their "failings" from members of the opposite gender. It is a perfectly normal human response to joke about "them", whoever they may be. Having said that, as a politician who expects to have to convince the 50% of voters who are women to vote for him, it was a particularly poorly-thought-out action. Mind you, he apparently went the grope on a male member (sry, couldn't resist) as well.

Do try to lighten up.

Vanilla: "I can safely say you know the most hideous group of women I've ever heard of."

What a lot of tosh. I know many, many women, some of whom are nice and some of whom I'd not give the time of day. I believe I may have mentioned about 3 or 4 of them. Nice generalisation, but no prize for derailing the debate, dear.

Antisecptic: "Erm... Buswell has little in common with me or most of the regular male posters here, why on earth judge us because of him?"

But no one has. Romany initially referred to "this incident and others of its kind" — no one regards this as anything to do with men in general. I don't know how many men indulge in these kinds of incidents, but I suspect it would be a gazillioneth of a per cent. I haven't read any feminist commentator in the meeja judge all men by Busell's standard either.

I certainly believe few men are at his snakebelly level. That's why we get irritated when Usual Suspect says women think all men are potential rapists or you say women think men stink. We simply don't.

I didn't mean to generalise about your friends, but the only group of women I've heard you mention seem like weird ladies. "Men tend to fart a lot, apparently, if the women I've known are any guide." The women you know are not useful guides on this issue.

Romany,

I think the other idea that's got lost in the bickering is that of chemists and commerce. As we know, I do think we must have reclaimed our stinky ladies bits because of the reduction in the amount of douches chemists sell and advertisements for them. While I know the products still exist, you never see an ad for them in women's mags these day, whereas old Women's Weeklys are full of ads for products that enhance your feminine freshness.

There's something quite profoundly old-fashioned about Buswell.

Vanilla--There's something quite profoundly old-fashioned about Buswell.

Could that be shades of 'Les Paterson' type humour?