I was still in Primary school when I heard the joke about the blind men passing the fish cannery and calling "Good night, ladies".

By the time I was 20 I had used so many scrubs, deodorants, wipes etc. that I was doing some serious chemical damage to soft tissues. Thank goodness I had sensible GP!

Despite a lifetime of having to smile dutifully at references to sardines - (so that I would show I was a good sport and had a sense of humour)I was 34 before I heard the word smegma. Even though I had given birth to two boys and hospital staff kept trying to convince me to get them circumsized for "hygiene purposes" no-one ever explained just what that meant. Certainly smell was never mentioned. I had never heard of the possibility in relation to men.

I was devastated when both my sons who at, respectively, 11 and 9, had always wanted to marry every girl in the playground,suddenly announced girls were "icky" and "disgusting" . They had been told by "the Big Boys" that girls smelt like day old bait.

To me, there seem only two reasons why a guy would sniff a chair where a woman has been:- either she is "on heat" all the time and spraying pheromones around like the nieghbourhood tom-cat, (is that why we are called cats?)or else her personal hygiene is at fault. I don't find anything at all jolly or light-hearted about either of those scenarios.

Any other women out there who feels an undercurrent of embarrassment about this incident and others of this kind? Anyone else who feels indignant at having to prove what a good sport she is and how she has a great sense of humour when actually she feels quite shirty and really, really, does not think it is even slightly funny? Anyone else feel the word "dignity" hovering around and being compromised out of existence?

Romany,

I should imagine almost all women would feel at the least an 'undercurrent of embarrassment' if not outright indignation upon being apprised of the incident in question. That is why it has been deliberately publicised: it can be guaranteed to offend, at least privately, 50 percent of the electorate. No doubt the hope of those who have put it about is that in the privacy of the polling-booth in the not-too-distant future, most women will express this indignation on a ballot-paper.

It would be a mistake to identify the (largely male) humour that has greeted this incident as necessarily being approval or acceptance of the 'standard' purportedly being set by the perpetrator in this or any similar case. I would suggest much of it is what would be classed as 'barracks humour'. Barracks humour is a (again largely male) means of dealing with shockingly unpleasant, and in most cases unchangeable, realities. Perhaps the closest 'polite' approach to an understanding of the context in which it is typically generated (at least the Australian variant) may be achieved by viewing John Doyle's complete musical comedy serialisation "Changi". Of course "Changi" does not have the coarseness of most barracks humour, but it does give a good idea of what can generate it. (Funny as a circus! That bit where the bloke put the bottle of beer and the parcel of prawns on the table, 50 years on, without saying a word, said all about what was on his mind. Hilarious. Subtle. And dignified.)

If you must know, the fourth line of my own little 'musical accolade' to 'Julie Vickers' in the 'Bra snapper, chair-sniffer party' thread was the bit about which I was least comfortable. In the event 'Julie Vickers' really exists and is female, let it be known that I put that in not just for rhyming purposes, but as a means of throwing back in her face her sanctimonious hypocrisy in deliberately further publicising this unpleasantry.

Focus your anger on the manipulation of Australian politics that effectively sets such initial conduct as a 'standard'.

Dear Romany,

I don't think there's a woman out there who would not be embarrassed by the chair-sniffing incident. It certainly has the 'cringe factor'
attached to it. Who would not feel humiliated by making something so personal, so public?

I agree with Forrest. It's cheap publicity - and the only way to counter it is at the ballot box. Hopefully the message will get across loud and clear - that there are certain things that should be left well enough alone - as good taste dictates.

Romany,

I can understand you feeling uncomfortable with said joke, but your prelude implying some sort of gender double standard is ridiculous.

Jokes of 'cheese', even 'scrot rot' are commonplace, so I'd just put it down to differences in the sense of humour of men and women. I'm sure most guys would laugh at each other the same way they force each other to smell their farts. Obviously it was rude and inappropriate behaviour, 'time and place', mixed company etc.

Anyway, be thankful your outer labia were not cut off like a lot of guys have had their foreskin removed for these 'hygene' purposes. I even saw on tv the other day a mother deciding she wanted it done to her child for 'cosmetic' reasons. The feminists heads would explode if this kind of attitude were expressed with such acceptance with regards to female genitals.

'both my sons who at, respectively, 11 and 9, had always wanted to marry every girl in the playground,suddenly announced girls were "icky" and "disgusting" '
Ah that brings me back to those primary school days. There isn't a girl alive who hasn't described boys as gross, dirty, smelly etc...

Foxy,
While you support my idea that we all feel the same, the point that bothers me so much is that I - a woman - had even to ask this question.

If it affects us all like this then why do so many of us say nothing? The fact that in a thread asking what other women think, you are the only woman to respond casts up even more questions in my mind.

That this particular incident occurred in a political situation I find even more shaming. One could, I guess, argue political expediency - but what about all the women who stand around - in playgrounds, on campuses, in pubs, at parties and barbies - when allusions to the same subject are made, and say nothing? Why? Is our secret fear that if we
protest all the men present are going to tell us that we really do smell offensive and we'll be even more publicly humiliated?

Forest - thank you for your response. You are correct too, in naming part of my emotion as anger, which I hadn't fully accepted. But puzzlement and confusion are what led me to pose the question.

Usual Suspect. I appreciate that your posts seek to draw attention to gender equality but in this instance I am unsure that there is a male equalizer - which is why I wanted to hear from other women. I know what you say is true - that there is some reference made sometimes to men. But the point I was making was that right from childhood females learn that there is something nasty about the most feminine aspect of themselves. Unarguably the deodorants, cleaning cloths and sprays on the market for "feminine hygiene" are all directed at women. Equating the "boy germs-girl germs" phase of childhood is not quite the same thing.

Romany, not sure what you’re getting at here; all attractive women smell good. Chair sniffing is just one of those weird fetishes (didn’t realise there was one relating to furniture, but one lives and learns). Don’t women have any they can share here? I notice the only woman that responded, mentioned not a single one.