Dear Usual Suspect,

OK, I admit it. You got to me. You pushed the right buttons.

Look, I wish that we could keep things on an even keel - and not divide ourselves into groups "us" and "them," without demeaning
either one.

They say that, "sticks and stones..." But words do hurt. Gestures do hurt. Jokes do hurt. And any of us that have been on the receiving end knows what it feels like.

You're picking on CJ - Why? You say that he sucks up to females on this forum. That's not true. CJ often disagrees, but he usually comes up with a very balanced, rational, point of view. As does Robert.

Anyway, I don't want to side-track Romany's subject so I'll end this
discussion with you.

And, by the way, my children were born in Los Angeles - (everything
paid for by my husband and I). Just so that you know - we too have nothing to gain from 'Prepaid Maternity Leave.'

Cheers.

People! People! People!

Usual Suspect, CJ isn't sucking up to anyone. All he said was that he understood Romany was seeking female feedback, and said he found nothing offensive about lady odours. So what? Some people don't.

Someone accused me on another thread of sucking up to the boys. I found the accusation rather ridiculous. I'm an adult, it's a discussion, and I state my point of view. Sometimes passionately, sure, but I think we're all beyond "sides" here.

I still think Romany's initial point was an excellent one. Women are encouraged to feel bad about their smell of their vajayjays. I think the problem on this board, and the reason I try to avoid gender-specific OLO discussions these days, is that some posters read any statement about a woman as being an attack on men, and/or think that all discussion about women should be offset by making similar points about men. In this case, we were only four posts in before Usual Suspect wanted to bring in insults directed at males. That's an interesting conversation to have, but it is off-topic on this thread.

I think another general problem is that some posters read Romany's post as an attack on men. It is NOT an attack on men. It is an attack on Troy Buswell; some men who, like Mr Buswell, continue to believe its hilarious to say ladies bits are stinky despite being over the age of fifteen; and those pharmaceutical companies and chemists who seek to exploit the insecurity that results from the remarks of the Troy Buswells of this world. I thought it was an excellent topic, as it's rarely talked about.

It's not a matter of "nasty men posters" and being unilaterally supported, just a matter of approaching the topic without rancour or prejudice. Like Romany, I often feel like saying, "I'm not HER — whoever it is you're arguing with." I feel like I'm on a constant collision course with a preconception.

But I've pretty much given up anyway.

Usual Suspect:-

"Ok. I get it. You only really want to hear from women..." At last! You understand the title of the thread!
"...and you see men's input as boring and predictable"
Nope, not "men’s" just "some men’s". For instance, there was once a contributor called Whitty who said all the same things you say:

U.S: "...Perhaps then you can understand the many men brought up in the time of feminism that feel they have been held accountable daily for every sin of the patriarchy"

Whitty: " I know I have felt like I've been asked to apologise for the sins of all men throughout history" "all the feminist PC drivel a whole generation of guys were brought up with while constantly apologising for being a man."

See? Some of you do sound just the same. And carry exactly the same chips around on your shoulders. Though, admittedly, Whitty doesn’t seem to post any more. He actually "resigned" from OLO just before you started to contribute.

To rephrase my last post: – its tough that people like you and Whitty were made to feel like that by some women. But why flay all of us? WE WEREN’T THERE. We don’t expect men to be apologetic about their masculinity. Nor hold them responsible for any of the shite that may have gone down in our lives.

"It's very hard to be brought up being told you're the violent, potential rapist, non caring parent, female oppressor, responsible for all wars and human misery".

Its also not a walk in the park being told you’re worthless, stupid, ignorant, a failure as a parent and as a woman, a waste of skin, and that the world would be better off without you. But it was bad enough letting myself be brainwashed. To let it continue to affect me even now would be admitting I was all those things. While venting my feelings on total strangers instead of the person/s concerned would be allowing their power to spread.

So yeah. It does annoy me that discussions get sidetracked because of other people's unresolved issues.

CJ made a fish joke. Naughty, naughty

Vanilla,

Romany could have just let the topic be about how she felt about the chair sniffing. She didn't. She stated 'I had never heard of the possibility in relation to men'. I gave her an example. What the hell is wrong with that?

She also used a cross example of Smegma for men, comparing her exposure (and I assume by implication her understanding of the general population) to that of feminine fish smell. i.e. women the downtrodden made to feel bad about their bodies, but not men.

I really think the gender comparison was set up by the above, and I have been unfairly castigated for 'changing the topic', where I was addressing the original premise made by Romany that men and women are treated differently. Regardless I take your point this is a 'female only' thread, and males are not welcome. Unless they agree like CJ of course.

Anyway, as I said, the only thread that dealt with DV by women against men got PLEANTY of women guilty of exactly what all you women are complaining about here.

Romany,

'You understand the title of the thread!'
Not just this thread. I mean in general, since you say other threads are 'filled with all sorts of 'male' comments'

'See? Some of you do sound just the same.'
That's because we are one and the same. And the reason for the change in moniker is CJ attacking my mother, and me feeling my name being too revealing if these kind of attacks continue. I came back because I thought I should not let myself be bullied off this forum, but now I think life is too short, and I should have kept to my original decision.

Romany, I haven't contributed much to this thread. Vanilla on the whole expressed precisely how I feel.

But then some males wanted to get some snide comments in. Mr Right topped it of.

I was lucky in that both my parents had no hang ups about any body parts. I wasn't made aware of smelly body parts. The only smelly issues were in regard to stinky feet after a day in closed shoes!

Consequently I cannot say I've ever felt personally embarrassed at juvenile 'humour' of the type you described. Only feel a feeling of distaste, a grown man with an emotional/psychological age of a particularly immature teenager. He's the one who should feel deeply embarrassed.

So, not embarrassed, revolted yes and very aware that it is fear of women and lack of self confidence why some grown males make these kind of 'jokes'.

That a person like that can be a party leader speaks volumes about the calibre of talent the WA liberals have. Whether male or female, you wouldn't want to publicly admit voting for somebody like that.