It seems that ,judging by debate on this forum in relation to animals..that farmers and any industry that makes its living from the sale and slaughter of animals for market, tries to discredit and undermine any group or organisation, that stands up for the right of animals.

Instead of recognising that there are precious few pple in the world who fight for any kind of deal for the health and welfare of animals and applaud and respect theyre efforts..they seem only concerned with tearing them apart.

Taurus29
It is true there has been a lot of ill feeling between animal producers and some groups. Note I say animal producers because thats what we have more and more in Australia. There are may wonderful people who care about animal welfare that are mislead at times by some of the group leaders and this leads to misunderstandings right the way through. I am sure it would be fair to say that most fair minded members of the public would prefer animal were treated kindly from padock to plate. Where it all goes wrong is when you get the cruel intensive producer and the animals liberation type protesting.
The animal liberation do a fantasic job in 995 of their work. Where they really fall over is by protesting about people eating meat. This does more damage than any one thing. The public get annoyed for do not listen to their good message and the farmers then brand every animal welfare group as extream. There are groups that work well with lots of farmers but its getting harder each day. The Government play up the extreme people as we tend to call them to suite their own agenda and turn their backs on the truth of their message. The Government do not want to deal with the cruelty of farm yard animals. Its huge and I dont think they would have a clue where to start. The other thing is real farmers are too busy working their land to be bashing out insults to animal wefare groups .
Despite what you have heard lots of them still dont use the net.
Wouldnt have it on the place.
There are exceptions to that of course as the little farmer gets pushed out and the corps take over.
Mass producing animals in terible conditions can not be called farming. There is a name for it but its certainly not farming.
However to answer you question people in the meat industry be nature dont like animal welfare groups.

Thank you NedKelly for your very well worded and articulate post..as long as Ive been on these animal threads now..I think thats the 1st time Ive had it explained in a way that put it in context for me.

Yes the government is great at manipulating agendas to suit themselves but how frustrating for anyone working to give a better deal for animals to have to deal with all theses contradictions from so many different depts.

Its incredibly frustrating and counterproductive and gets in the way of better outcomes for farmers, producers and animals.

Here is a question for you all. Given there are limited resources in the world, should people give money to organizations that save children in Africa or organizations that are concerned with the quality of a chicken's life in Australia?

Taurus... because they break the law... they invade private property, they misrepresent themselves and all manner of sculduggery.

This is not to suggest that they don't have in some cases a worthy cause. Personally, I don't worry about Chickens too much, they are a bunch of murdering thugs to their own. But pigs.. aah..they at least have a brain (that is functional) and the intensive pig farming/breeding methods based on the last cent of 'shareholder value' in large coroporate entities is disgusting.

Capitalist interests would tend to demonize anything they can find animal lib people doing if it effects their bottom line.
cheers.

"Despite what you have heard lots of them still dont use the net.
Wouldnt have it on the place."

ROFL, I can't think of one efficient farmer in WA, who is not
on the net :) Its used for everything, from checking the weather,
banking, the latest info, you name it. Those comments might
apply to a few hillbilly farmers in Queensland perhaps :)

Most animal welfare groups are branded extremist, because most
of them are. The head of Peta for instance, told us on national
tv, that when she dies, she wants her meat cut up and barbecued.

But today we understand extremism in neuroscientific terms. Emotions
and thoughts compete in the human brain. Science for instance, is
about rational thoughts, evidence, all information is tentative
and open to question, minds are changed based on the prevailing
evidence, in other words its about reason and weighing up the
arguments. Emotions are more black and white, for me and against me.
Extremists generally prevail in wearing their so called hearts on
their sleeves, despite the evidence. Emotions overwhelm reason.

Thats why so many animal libber groups are totally unreasonable.

Matt,

Your ‘right thinking’ doesn’t extend to doing the instigator of a discussion the courtesy of not changing his subject!

But now that you’ve done it – and I’m sure you will apologise to Taurus29, right thinker that you are – the scarcity of resources is caused by the very fact that there are too many people in Africa and other Third World countries. Giving money to them only exacerbates the problem.

Now, back to the subject. Some people will call anyone who disagrees with them “extremists”. There are probably extremists in animal welfare organizations, as there are on other organizations. Nevertheless, it is my view, as a conservative, NON animal-lover with no pets and no desire for the smelly things, that live animal transportation is grossly barbaric and should be stopped. People involved in the trade should be given a taste of the same treatment just to see how they like it.

Live animal exports is definitely one case where money outweighs human decency. The only meat which should be exported from Australia is carcasses. Within our society, there are many people who can kill here according to religions and other requirements.

Shame on any government allowing such cruelty to animals

"Live animal exports is definitely one case where money outweighs human decency. The only meat which should be exported from Australia is carcasses. Within our society, there are many people who can kill here according to religions and other requirements."

Leigh that might well be your uninformed opinion. The reality
of the present situation, ie drought, shows that Australia has
not got the capacity to slaughter here, nor will it allow the
import of labour to slaughter here. In fact it can be shown that
the money from live exports is helping to keep animals here alive
and is helping stop them dying in the paddocks.

What is your evidence that the live trade is cruel, given that
qualified organisations like the AVA do not agree with you?

Yabby,

Where is your evidence that my opinion is "uninformed"? If you want evidence, how about some from you before you start badmouthing someone you don't know?

If you cannot hack people with opinions differing from yours, you are in the wrong place. Just believe what you want to believe. Nothing wrong with that.

Leigh, your comments say it all!

"Where is your evidence that my opinion is "uninformed"?"

Ok sheesh Leigh, I will waste yet another valuable post
on you :) By your very reply. You clearly have no evidence
for your claim. As it was you making the claim, you should
be the one to back it up.

Here is a url about a journalist who recently took a trip
on a live sheep boat. Its up to you, if you want to
inform yourself or not, before making claims.

http://www.wellardgroup.com.au/media_centre/media_releases.phtml

Here is a list of standards that apply to the live trade:

http://www.daff.gov.au/livestockexportstandards

Unless you object to feedlots, give me a reason why it matters
if they float or not?

I think some animal welfare people are just stirrers and not interested in animal welfare at all.
For instance, I left my community in the NT some time ago to work in the big smoke and then went back recently for a bit.
You know you should see how dogs are treated on communities. Repeatedly kicked, torured by kids, starved, no vets, no needles to stop them getting sick. Many have VD and you know how that happens dont you. Ive complained to all sorts of animal rights and welfare mob but they just say they are interested in chickens. You know the white fellas who manage these communities and keep my mob under the thumb just watch these little dogs suffer and die. animal liberation and other wild looking mob dont do anything. theyre just rubbish.

i'm with you on that one willy rainbow

These threads must be hypnotic because I had agreed (with myself) that I wouldn't post here because of the vitriolic nonesence that is generated when anyone shows passion. I agree completely with Willy Rainbow, the misuse of animals or people for self-gratifaction is abominable.
Good animal husbandry practices are well defined and need to be enforced.
Getting back to the discussion, crap is always dumped on animal welfare groups becaue they threaten the dollars someone will make.

Yabby, just quickly (and appologies for being off post)but you're extremely naive if you believe one word of truth comes from any Australian publication. Tied to the Government's coat tails, they'll write anything if it means adhering to the policy/priority of keeping the mighty dollar flowing. Besides, it's what happens at journey's end where the story becomes shocking, a fact noted in the article which was hastly brushed aside.

"you're extremely naive if you believe one word of truth comes from any Australian publication."

Wildcat, I would be extremely naive, if I believed your statement.
Just because a publication is Australian, does not mean its not
accurate.

As anywhere, there are good and bad, so we judge by our experiences
of the past. As it happens, anything I've seen published by Cameron
Morse, as editor of the Countryman, has been pretty well what I
have seen in the real world. He has a great reputation, so I will
not jump to conspiracy theories for no good reason.

OTOH some of the most innacurate information that I have seen,
distorting information to suit various agendas, has come from
animal welfare groups. Extremists often know no bounds or limits,
when it comes to following their passions, as emotions overwhelm
their abilities to reason. Peta are a prime example of this,
there are plenty of others.

Money, well they all have their hands out for money, just check
their websites.

Cameron found that the abattoir in Jordan actually had a stun
gun, surprise surprise. So clearly change is happening in the
Middle East. Farmers can be proud that they are helping make a
difference and bring about that change. Animals will be slaughtered
there, as they have for thousands of years. If we can change practises there for the better, well that is good news.

The best way to deal with the Middle East is to slowly help to
change things. Australia is doing more then anyone else in this
respect, something we can be proud of, many animals will benefit.

Dear taurus29: It is when the Animal Liberation movement (who feel compelled to differentiate themselves from animal welfare standards) spout their self righteous, extremist rantings things begin to become unacceptable.

Peter Singer, Australian and prime mover of AL ideology, attempted to philosophise the equal status of animals by stating that "consensual sex with animals", should be accepted as a new moral standard. He was derided in the Boston Globe. In addition before 9/11 attacks, Animal Libbers featured on the FBI 10 Most Wanted list. The bottom line is that AL proponents are the equivalent of a new Taliban, who have attempted to elevate what we eat to religious zealotry.

Note partial articles below. The Globe article was purchased.

New York Post GREEN GOONS & 'RIGHTS' LOONS
January 28, 2006

Just last month, the ACLU screamed bloody murder ..

What will they say now - following a 65-count federal indictment of 11 members of the radical "environmental" groups, Earth Liberation Front and Animal Liberation Front?

The indictments, brought earlier this month, allege 17 incidents of arson, vandalism and other destructive acts - including sabotaging a high-tension power line -

Particularly dangerous is Daniel AnDreas San Diego suspected of planting bombs ,

NO HEAVY PETTING
CATHY YOUNG Date: April 11, 2001

Admittedly, bestiality is hardly a burning issue. But it's being discussed in editorials in the Wall Street Journal, The Weekly Standard and The New Republic, thanks to an essay by controversial philosopher Peter Singer in the online magazine Nerve, titled "Heavy Petting."
Singer, author of the 1979 book "Animal Liberation," argues that our revulsion at human-animal coupling is as irrational as the old prohibitions on homosexuality and that the persistence of this taboo attests to "our desire to differentiate ourselves . . . from animals.
Singer scoffs at the belief that humans have a unique spiritual nature or moral stature. To him, "we are animals," which means that interspecies sex "ceases to be an offense to our status and dignity as human beings" and is not wrong unless it involves violence to the animal

I work in conjunction with RSPCA QLD and PALE


I wanted to set that straight.



Public needs to know what a stun gun is and what its used for.

They require to know the difference in Slaughtering methods to make an informed opinion.

A Stun Gun- Is a divice that delivers an electric shock to an animal.
However because of the Muslim faith the animals is not allow to die through this shock and it must be revsersable [ meaning if you left the animals it would eventually stagger to its feet].

The animal must further then be subjected to having a knife cuts its throat.

Under Halal requirements [ the word Halal meaning lawful to allah]

AFIC Australian Federation Of Islamic Council In Australia have been quick to lodge a Subbmishion to the Senate Enquiry For Animal Welfare To encourage more Halal Slaughter in Australia in prference to the live Animal trade.

This is to their credit. Who better to know. Here is their Sub to the Government
http://www.halakindmeats.com/submissions.html

Stun Guns are a requirement in Australia Halal Abattoirs with proper restraints.

In order for a stun gun to work you must have the correct holding facilitys and knocking boxes.

Just imagine for example on of the guys on death row being chanced around

It is important that the public also are aware that a huge amount of these animals Australia sends are taken home to be killed

Its normal for them to allow children to conduct their first Halal Slaughter at home. Stabbing of the eyes first is very common
Yabby has pointed out Cameron found "one stun gun"?


People who are really informed like the RSPCA have long and hard campainged against live exports.

New Zealand are leading the way in slaughtering there.
,
Yabby Suggested Minister Vanestone you allow trained workers to do night shifts at Australian Abattoirs until we can help you train Aussies.

Good idea Minister Amanda Vanstone.
What about it?

PALE – is that what you want to be called?

It seems to me that you know very little about how animals are killed in your own country let alone how they do it overseas. A walk down a slaughter line would remedy that for you.

You want people to know what a stun gun is? Why?

All animals killed in Australian abattoirs are stunned before killing.

Wether that stunning is via electric shock, Co2 or captive bolt, all animals are stunned and all have a knife stuck in their throats to bleed them out.

Btw they would also recover from that stunning if given time, they are not killed by the stun. Why? Because they need the animal’s heart to be beating when it is stuck to pump the blood out.

“It is important that the public also are aware that a huge amount of these animals Australia sends are taken home to be killed”

Thousands of animals are ‘home killed’ in this country, another fact you seem to be unaware of. Its seems you just choose to ignore what happens in your own backyard.

This is part of the reason animal welfare groups get labeled as extremists. You don’t bother to learn your facts before condemning something.

Its important the public know what a stun gun is for two reasons.

One- because Yabby raised it. Two so public can make a informed decision.

People need to know what Yabby refered to being fair to them and animals.

You made a good point when you raised the fact all animals are killed in Australia receive some sort of pre stunning.

Thats the whole point.

That is not the case in other countries and goes to one of the bones of the issue and cries of protests world wide.

I really hope you are not suggesting that RSPCA are uninformed
You are again reminded I work in conjunction with RSPCA QLD and AFIC who do the Halal Slaughter Accreditations. For your own sake I suggest you think before you answer that question.

Slaughtering methods have been suggested here as a joint proposal from Mark Townend CEO RSPCA Qld, AFIC and PALE.

http://www.halakindmeats.com/submissions.html

If any organisation has spent time in plants it would have to be us.

I am also three generation farming family.

Yes millions of Animals are killed in Australia- by bolt or gun if in the bush normally.

Millions are also slaughterd Halal using a stun gun in Australia as well.
Then we have Kosha which I will discuss another time so not to confuse the public.

Some Animal Groups do get taged extreme.

Instead of working to find better slaughter methods they protest about eating meat.

This is counter productive and ends up doing more harm than good.


RSPCA and PALE are a main stream groups of people who believe animals should be slaughtered as close to their place of origin as possible.

That is in complete conflict with Live Exports.

The RSPCA stepped up the campaign against Live Exports last year.

All groups and most members of the public share a common interest to make sure animals are slaughtered here with pre stunning as you pointed out.
Other than people in the live exports industry and shipping agents we all agree the findings of three enquiries which recomended live exports to be banned

I feel that you are at risk of being branded extreme yourself because you insist on bringing this subject into all threads you post on. It has been hammered to death here on other threads for weeks now. How many times have we seen the same links to your site put up? Its all getting rather boring.

Lets not go back around the same old track and stir up the same old arguement.

"Yes millions of Animals are killed in Australia- by bolt or gun if in the bush normally."

Well those that happen to be killed in an abattoir might be, not
so long ago at Robbs Jetty, they would simply slit their throats.
Most sheep killed on farms and home butchers etc, have their
throats slit. No stun guns, right here in Aus. Plenty of young
country kids learn how to kill their first sheep, taught by
their dad, much like in the Middle East.

You can yell from the rooftops all you like, the rspca can do
the same. Fact is if there are not the workers to do the slaughtering,
it can't be done in Australia. Its not about training, most meatworks
train their own.

I am one of the loudest proponents on OLO for encouraging the
import of seasonal contract labour, to increase abattoir capacity,
especially in times of this, like drought. Fact is that most
respondents are against it, they want one thing, more money for
themselves, bugger anything else.

The labour party is against it too and whilst they are against it,
the Libs won't risk it, for fear of the next election. Simple
as that.

Yabby

You naughty boy

Wasnt going to reply but then it occured some members of the public might be gullible enough to believe you.

What stands out in my mind is that if you really thought that was still happening either you would not report it.

I think I can rest my case as to your real interest in animal welfare.
Dont trust the web pages and reports if you dont want to end up with egg on your face.

Robbs Jetty abattoir has been closed for many many years.

There was some work carried out under research of diseases in 1992 under Mike Paton vet with DPI and the plant did operate at that time again for a while after being closed in 1986.

They always used pre stunning.

I take it your aware of the accreditations for export meat and local meat falling under two seperate authorities.

One being AQIS and the others the actual State Governments under DPI.

If you know plants in Australia operating without some form of pre stunning either please let me know.

The other thing I have not bothered to tell you is that Dr Hugh Wirth is no longer the President of RSPCA or WSPA for that matter.

However you are out there trying your best to stop a NFP organisation who work for no wages and put in out of their own pockets to help animals stopped from posting to the public.

Your on the money however regarding labour for meat plants.

Your loud cries should be heard

AQIS and DPI will be after Graham if you keep posting such rubbish. Not fair on him and another good reason for real names so peoples claims can be accountable.
When I told them this nonesense was on a political public forum under the code name Yabby they were unimpressed to say the least.

The good news is I have now been alocated the job to arrange your cruise

Well as it happens I am about the same age as you are. A friend
of mine, about my age, used to work for AQIS. As it happens, he
used to work in meat plants. He told me that when he was younger,
they used to simply slit their throats at some of the plants
he went to in WA.

Not so long ago, is a question of time. If you happen to think
that you were younger a hell of a long time ago, well speak
for yourself about how old you feel :)

So I'm guessing here, but I'd say it was in the 70s. Thats really
not that long ago, I was in my 20s then.

Whether an organisation makes profit or not, is to me not an
issue. Most just happen so seek donations. An organisation can
in fact be doing damage to others, damage their ability to earn
a livelyhood etc. They might promote a cause which makes no
sense. I saw such an organisation on the net the other day,
claiming how evil the rspca were. Sorry, I disagree.

Cowboy Joe

Peter Singer is a nutter! Unhappily, his type often infiltrate well-meaning groups, in an attempt to spread their own obscene propaganda. I can assure you that most animal activists, who risk ridicule in their efforts to ensure the proper welfare of animals, would hold Singer in the same regard as I do - abnormal and deranged!

I have failed to find any other species which engage in inter-species sex - think about it! A rooster and a cat? A monkey and a dog? Perhaps a horse and a camel? What about a ghekko and a snake?

Only the mentally stunted human species, suffering severe abnormal behavioural traits, engages in deliberate acts of bestiality!

Dickie

How right you are. I said I would not post anymore but I couldnt leave your comment unanswered.
Peter Singer may mean well for animals but unless incredibly stupid would know his extreme ideas make it worse for them.

These so called groups who fund raise and pay themselves wages make me ill.
They are self-appointed and do not represent the feelings of Australians.
Australians by large are meat eaters.
I wrote once to this incredibly arrogant man so I can speak with some first hand knowledge about him.
I was excited about the willingness of AFIC to help increase the slaughtering of Halal kills here in Australia- saving more animals being sent overseas alive.

I received the most arrogant of letters telling me to stop anything I was doing and sell the equiptment I had informed him I purchased to set up my little office.
He told me to put my money and my familys money and get all my friends and get their money and sent it to Glenyce Of Animals Australia.
Interestingly enough I had not mentioned money it was the last thing on my mind.

He also expressed horror at any suggestion of opening more abattoirs and staffing them properly.

Well Hello Peter Singer thats what it really takes to stop live exports.

No wonder these groups are hated by the farmers.

Do you really think Peter it helps to tell people not to eat meat.?

You protest about live exports then try to stop good people working with farmers to slaughter here.

To Top it off you delude yourself that you are helping animals.

Extreme people dont help.

They Make it worse.

Thank you Dickie for raising this very important issue. Extreme groups are the biggest set back in Animal Welfare in this country.

Antje Struthmann

Well heres an initiative from two professional animal welfare organisations that could not be branded as extreme:

Yesterday - Animals Australia, in conjunction with Sydney based animal protection organisation Voiceless, The Berg Family Foundation and Hunter Hall International Ltd, launched the largest ever national advertising campaign to highlight the suffering of pigs in factory farms. This unique alliance was formed knowing that the cruel pork industry has prospered through consumer ignorance, and that due to legal exemptions based on 'commercial considerations', pigs are being subjected to practices and procedures that would be classed as cruelty offences if they were committed against the family dog or cat. In their ability to suffer, pigs are no different to the animals who have become our companions.

At the same time, Animals Australia has launched Make the Pro Pig Pledge!, a nation-wide initiative for caring consumers. We are asking all Australians who believe that these highly sensitive and intelligent animals deserve protection from acts of cruelty to make the Pro Pig Pledge - We'll update the tally of Pro Pig Pledges received on our savebabe website each week to show Pledgers - and the pork industry! - how many compassionate Australians are supporting our campaign.

Make the Pro Pig Pledge
http://www.savebabe.com/pledge.html

PF

"Savebabe" - Now you're talkin' Pig Farmer. Well done!

Antje

Just discovered that Peter Singer is the co-founder of Animals Australia - eeeeekkkk!!

Unwittingly, I endorsed the "Savebabe" Animals Australia campaign (See PF's post) to halt the process of factory farmed pigs.

As I said earlier these nutters peddle their propaganda on the most unlikely forums, however, our crusade is for the humane treatment of animals, therefore, my revulsion of Singer has taken a back seat to the welfare of the hapless pig!

Good on you Dickie!

Hasnt Singer moved on? AA would be a bit tame for him now wouldnt it?

All of those issues aside, I think this campaign is going to make a big statement. Well heres hoping anyway.

Dickie

Sorry I didnt see your post before. Yes. What erks me is the first animal welfare enquiry ever agreed to was done on the bassis it was only presented from one point of view [according to the founders] that was the vegetarian point of view. Nothing seems to have changed much Dickie. All sounds a bit to political to me. Ah.
Of course they totally over look the fact that 96 to 98 percent of Australians are meat eaters.
Nor will they support any free range farmers from a practicle point of view. Any farmer that has been doing the right thing that I know has contacted them has been told- Sorry but your still killing animals.
Soon another campaign is to commence to raise the publics awarness of the cruelty of intensive farming. Thats great- The Only real problem is Dickie there are not enough free range farmers to supply the stores after they educate the public to demand them because they wont! support them and are against people eating meat.

One would have thought they might in case case wrapped the ones up in cotton wool who contacted them instead of shunning them.

Yes sir re its got to be political because that type of thinking could only make sense to a politician. Anderw Bartlett seems to only work with Animals Australia and Animal lib and understands it very well
Gee its all aking sense now Dickie
Sort of. mean while the good farmers suffer along with the animals while they all fund raise. No wonder the farmers get angry.
cheers

And here is what the good MP had to say about your claims:

Andrew Bartlett says:
April 28th, 2006 at 3:30 pm

"Wendy
you (or ‘we’) have it wrong - both in your statements about preferences and any suggestion that I bear responsibility for Labor’s policy on live exports or animal welfare in general. As to your suggestion that “the government agreed to hold its first enquiry into animal welfare only if it was put up as a vegatrian argument”, that is too ludicrous for words and the historical record also shows it is demonstrably wrong."

As for your comment about AA and fund raising, how much do you think this latest campaign is costing? Nice to see them putting those funds to work isn’t it.

Dickie.

I know what you are saying.
Its good what you have done.
PF let me tell you again please. My name is Antje and I have no wish to exchange posts with you. Stop following me around from post to post.
Its very childish and I am not going response to you. I am posting here as a member of the public and if I choose to help animals it is none of your! business.

” Dickie , I don’t think Wendy would care what the good MP replied. I know for a fact Wendy has it in writing from one of the original founders of them along with Peter Singer.

They claimed it was the only way they could get an enquiry up in those days.

Considering the attitude way back then I have no reason to disbelieve her. I would suggest as an original founder she would know more than him.

Andrew of course used to be the President of Animal Liberation in Brisbane years ago. Last year he called for a Senate Enquiry into Animals Welfare
PALE lodged a joint sub along with AFIC and RSPCA QLD putting forward some real answers towards fazing out live exports and increasing free range farms.
Andrews response was to take their petition against Live Animal exports off his web page?.

According to his staff it was under his direct instructions.

I personally think especially given it is in his local area and they are in Melbourne that it is of concern.

I also think each member of the public and group should be treated equally.

So Dickie eeeek is right

I am in no doubt Andrew cares very much about animals.

I do question his slant however just to the vegetation groups

That’s a conflict of interest which does not help animals

Nobody has ever challenged him on that in twenty years. He does not like it.
Too Bad
Dickie you might like to sign the petition. This is the one Andrew took down/ Interesting isn’t it?

http://consciousevolution.com/onshu/view_signatures.php

http://consciousevolution.com/onshu/Petition.php

I made no reference to anyone anje .. copy and paste straight from Andrew Bartlett's website. His reference not mine :)

Do you have exclusive rights to these threads? No?? I will post where ever I like thanks. You dont want to respond then all you have to do is cease doing it :)

I will respond this one time.
Read the letter I beleive were sent. Unreasonable harrasment is unexceptable.
I repeat you have followed me from post to post trying to cause trouble. Everybody is sick to death of you creating dramas in each and every forum.

You have been doing so for months. I see you are telling cilia to just get over it and move on.

Why dont you do likewise

Your continual posts are flaming. I am not Wendy and I will not put up with it.

Stop Trolling and flaming me from one thread to another.

last warning

Antje Struthmann.

If you wish to make irrational statements on this forum expect people to disagree with you and try to set the record straight. Andrew Bartlett's statement is a fact. I certainly did not write it.

I have not harrassed or flamed you in any way. Merely stated my opinions that you dont happen to like. Let me remind you of the topic for this thread.

"Last warning"

Are you threatening me antje? Rather 'extreme' dont you think.

Yep Antje

Signed the petition and gave the legislators a wallop, only to be advised that I'd already registered. That's news to me!

Must interrogate the livestock - oops, I mean the children!

Thanks Dickie.

I guess it is no surprise to most nice children have nice parents.
Thank you for the time you have taken over a long period to speak out for the animals.

It counts.
Goodnight Antje Struthmann

Wednesday, November 01, 2006

QUEENSLAND BANS DUCK AND QUAIL HUNTING

The Queensland Government tonight passed laws banning recreational duck and quail hunting.

Environment Minister Lindy Nelson-Carr told State Parliament the shooting of ducks and quail for sport was not an appropriate recreational activity in this day and age.

“While it may once have been acceptable, community attitudes have changed and combined with environmental concerns, it has reached a stage where it is time to make a permanent decision about this practice,” Ms Nelson-Carr said.

“The new laws follow findings by the Animal Welfare Advisory Committee that the wounding rates in hunting these animals was unacceptably high.

“The committee found that up to 90 per cent of birds shot were not killed outright.”

Ms Nelson-Carr said the laws would not impact on the existing rights of landholders to protect their crops from damage should they need to, nor did it impact on the traditional hunting rights of indigenous Queenslanders.

“This Bill also does not prevent recreational shooters from targeting feral animals such as pigs or rabbits which cause economic and environmental harm,” she said.

Ms Nelson-Carr said community feedback indicated that many people in the community saw the practice as barbaric and outdated.

In 2004, the last declared season in which duck and quail hunting was permitted, only 374 permits were issued while 20 years ago, in 1984, 1800 permits were issued.

Re Andrew Bartletts comment.

Andrew can say what he wishes. The fact is I have emails to that effect from one of the original founders of Animals Rights who was involved personally in subbotmmiting the first ever enquiry into Animal Welfare.
That person claims that it was stated by the Government of the day that they could have an enquiry into animals welfare providing it was presented from the one pointof view only > being Veg vegan supporters.
from what I have seen nothings changed. Andrew years ago was President of Animal Liberation in Brisbane so I knowhe cares about Animals.
Thats great but how about treating the main stream groups eaqually considering we are a meat eating county.

Let the average Jo blow have say as well as the Animal Libbers.
Who knows we may even then be able to move on and improve conditions for these creatures rather thn stand on our higher moral grounds telling others not to eat meat.

These old emails are really handy
Would you like me to post it?
Antje Struthmann

Dickie.

As PF has mentioned Andrew and Singer. A few months back when AA did their run with 60 minutes our lot always happy to assist asked them how they would like a Media release from AFIC supporting the fact that Muslims do not require animals shipped alive for religious purposes. lyn white who is actually very good with a normal personality said gee that would be good if you can arrange it thanks. Within ten minutes and a short phone call it was done. Here it is just click and scroll down is>http://www.livexports.com/afic.html
The real question is Dickie in all the 20 pluss years the good Senator has met with AFIC members and travelled around at our expense why couldnt he have asked them for something regarding that years before? Or why didnt all these other groups approach the Mulims about live exports? Ah> Good question
Then he has a Senate enquiry into Animal Welfare. So Dickie amoungst the others he receives this from AFIC working in conjunction with PALE RSPCA QLD.
http://www.halakindmeats.com/submissions.html
To save you reading the whole thing its the biggest step forward every put to any enquiry into Animal Welfare especially given the fact these are the muslim leaders of Australia working together with RSPCA QLD and pALE.
So Dickie what does? Andrew do after recieving this fantasic sub that great time and effort went into to support his! Senate Enquiry.
Ok I will tell you. He personally intructs the PALE petition removed from his web site. This one>
http://consciousevolution.com/onshu/view_signatures.php
He then hosts an evening for AA and AL for a Movie night to raise funds for their organisations.
So the question is Dickie whats his story?
I mean the real story.
Perhaps Peter Singer and PETA might not approve ah?
I wonder if he will work for them once leaving this current job. umm if you look on the American PETA web site you will se Andrew there. Peter Singer not far away.
Speaking of arrogant people must be true what they say. Birds of a feather really do stick together.