to those guys who have trouble with scantilly clad females. You know there are certain surgical procedures that can cure these uncontrollable urges

Dear Bronwyn.....

as one who has sharply criticized some of your posts in the past... I have to give credit where it is due here, (sorry I didn't notice your post earlier) and note your very balanced and honest post.. and one of your key points deserves further amplification.
You said about women vamping themselves up.. then other women feel "pressured to conform" and I say *BINGO*.. how true that is.
You've latched onto a crucial marketing tool also.. peer pressure.
Onya :)

SANCHO.. you could have found a MUCH better analogy than the cash registers one. The more appropriate analogy would be the way sweets are stacked at the FRONT of the cash registers, most of them being at 'pocket height' in service stations etc. Now..I sometimes feel hesitant to stand too close to the counter because of the potential of being 'seen' as a sweet thief. :)

Now...Vanila, CJ and Romany.. you all need a mild scolding:) 'mocking' ? huh? *frown*.... this is an important issue of social concern, and mocking others beliefs or positions publically does nothing to address it. Makes me wonder of you mob used to sit at the back of the school bus yelling out at everyone else.

Sancho says "our dna screams out to mate" so far so good, but then he goes on to say "with as many healthy females as possible".. actually the Bible calls that 'the flesh' and it is to be repented of!
Mating with ONE female, in a respectful loving supportive family is what our DNA screams, but 'the flesh', sin, is what drives promiscuity.

If someone is sexist and presumptious they will think and say disrespectful things about you or to you regardless of what you wear.

I am a native of Punchbowl who currently resides in L.A.. On Friday, I had my first conversation with my regular bus driver. After the basic "where are you from" questions he disclosed tp me when he first saw me he assumed I was a "stripper". When this man sees me I am usually wearing sweats for the gym (long sleeved & covered) or my business suit (no cleavage, never above the knee). The reason? Because I have "body" and I "walk seductively".

I am a fully covered, well-spoken & intelligent woman yet was relegated to "hoe" status by a Black male because I do not walk like I have a stick up my butt. And to add insult he stated it before other passengers and my 3 year old son.

A disrespectful person will create or distort ANY observation to judge a person, period.

Gibo’s latest thread (which should also be known as “The Meat Tray Effect”), is an example of the modern Christian "modesty" movement. This kind of attitude is at its extreme in Islam (the burqa) but is also at the foundation of much male hatred towards women in our own society, simply because young (and not-so-young) heterosexual men are excused as incapable of controlling their lustful thoughts about women all the time.

Where misogyny starts:

(1) Belief that lustful thoughts are sinful.

No, lust is simply human.

(2) Belief that women have a moral responsibility to prevent men from thinking lustful thoughts.

No-one is responsible for another’s thoughts. We are individually responsible for how we react to any situation. We can acknowledge to ourselves that we find someone sexually alluring; we should also keep in mind that the person we find attractive does not necessarily feel the same way about us.

Most men manage to both genuinely like and respect women irrespective of their sexual attraction. However there is a significant percentage (mostly religious men, but also those embittered men have not fared too well in their relationships) who prefer to shift the blame onto women rather than reflecting upon their own behaviour.

Cont’

Cont’d

While we continue to view modesty in women as a moral imperative and placing responsibility on women for reining in men's lust, we will continue to be an inequitable society.

I am 166cm tall, blond hair, blue eyes, slender build and I could wear a neck to knee sack and men would still think of me in objective terms. When I lived in the inner suburb of St Kilda, in Melbourne, it didn’t matter that I was in my daggiest baggiest track-suit and no make-up, men would still try to pick me up – after all I was an attractive female in a red-light suburb - I must be on the game, that I simply happened to be a resident of St Kilda, simply didn’t occur to some men.

Men make totally inaccurate assumptions about women all the time. It is not my fault, nor the fault of any other woman, how a man thinks.

Now it is time for men to become the captains of their own lives, to learn a level of independence for themselves. Taking responsibility for your sexual thoughts is an act of maturity and autonomy. Until then, you will continue to be lead around by your dicks, still blaming women for the problems that your own thoughts have caused.

Guys admit it: women cause lust just by BEING. Anti-lust attitudes that is attitudes that place responsibility on women for causing lust , are inherently anti-woman, and a very dangerous strain on our well-being and our ability to truly communicate with each other.

To cover up or not to cover up...that is the question.

From a purely anthropological standpoint I wonder how our sexuality would have evolved if we all still walked around completely starkers!

Do men in nudist colonies walk around in a perpetual state of arousal? Or do they see the body purely as a natural form and separate the sexuality aspect to the bedroom. I don't have any answers just putting this out there for discussion.

Attire is very much conditioning as exemplified by the variations in dress codes between different cultures. A semi naked women in an Papuan, South American or African village is not considered inappropriate but in the CBD of Sydney it might be. When we see Amish women or Muslim women in full burkha we react again to the severeness of the dress and the connotations of patriarchial societies.

I agree wholeheartedley with the sentiments expressed by some above that we are not responsible for the thoughts of others, we are only responsible for our own behaviour and conduct.

To speak in context of our own culture, women are still burdened with the pressures of what society expects. Equally a woman wearing the hijab or a woman in a skimpy mini-skirt in a particular situation have both been scorned and both have reported being spat on