Belly: "falling for a racist con job then defending it?"

I know. The thing I find most funny but also most sad about this thread is that some of the people defending the ad honestly don't appear to realise that they've been conned. They're thinking, "Ok, maybe the details aren't right, but the spirit of the thing is true."

Some people cannot think for themselves when they read something that snaps perfectly into their own construction of self-pity and prejudice. Most of the time on OLO people search for proofs to back up their biases — here, we have people spouting forth bias in the face of proofs.

In the end, as I said earlier, there really is a sucker born every minute. It is embarrassing to get caught out, but fighting you way through that embarrassment by insisting a con job isn't a con job or insisting you never believed in the first place is not a good way to handle it. Better to fess up and and learn something, I reckon.

Sounds like PALE has been caught out just like TRTL with his/her absurd claims about some Christian groups.

runner - you claimed last time, that I should be embarrassed because I was proven wrong about those fringe Christian groups, like Mercy Ministries.

Actually, I've yet to be proven wrong. You just keep saying I have, without proof.

Seems to me, you're the one who is a fine example of pressing on in the face of proof that has proves you completely wrong.

Post the evidence to the contrary, that Mercy Ministries aren't the shady organisation that has been written about in the Sydney Morning Herald, or confess you just don't want to believe it and retract that last comment.

I've yet to be proven wrong there runner, and until you provide something to substantiate your claim, your posts will continue to appear as petulant whinging.

I'm happy to continue debating those Christian groups. They're nutcases, and I've at least provided links to news articles that show it.

Where's your proof huh runner? Why should I believe you're any different to those here, who are determined to ignore evidence?

TurnRightThenLeft,

It is good that you have gone from comparing these groups from being equivalent to Jihadist to shady groups and nutcases. Good to see your tone changing.You however now put the onus on me to prove something that you made accusations about that were clearly misleading and untrue. You made the original accusations and have been found to be ignorant or lying. Don't then try and put the onus on me to prove you wrong. You have not been able to back up your claims at all. Maybe you should think a little bit harder before bad mouthing groups you know nothing about.

runner - I put forward a news article, pointing out these groups were damaging young people.

That had claims from women who said their benefits were taken away, and the group used cult-like social exclusion tactics.

I was asking christians, what they thought of these practices.

If you wish to refute them, then fine. News articles aren't always accurate, though 99 times out of a hundred they're more accurate than the protestations of people who have axes to grind, who don't like what's in the article.

I can accept the article may not be accurate - if I had reason to.

My tone has not changed in the least.

You keep saying I've been "caught out".

This, I'm afraid, is what's known as "crap" because you've never provided any reasons.

The onus is most certainly on you. You're claiming that you have more credibility than this news articles, and by default, the claims of the women within that article.

I say, if you're going to make that claim, provide some backing.

The onus is most certainly on you, if you have the arrogance to claim I've been 'caught out' then you need to back that up, or admit you're talking hot air. I have no idea where I've been 'caught out' because you've never put forward anything other than petulant sniping comments, such as the one above.

Runner: "Sounds like PALE has been caught out just like TRTL with his/her absurd claims about some Christian groups."

Except not. The circular email that begat this thread was a known hoax of several years standing. It's a lie. It was written in order to fool people — the point is to find bigots, tell them what they want to hear, then watch them react.

TRTL, in the other thread, linked to real cases. You didn't deny the veracity of those cases.

I thought you made some good points about the cases TRTL cited, runner. I don't agree that the Mercy Ministries do anyone much good, but you're right in saying the girls who came to them were already in deep psychological need.

As for Catch the Fire, you said they were being metaphorical. If that is the case, then I care as much as I would if I heard a Muslim calling for the metaphorical destruction of a Cathedral. That is, not all all — as long as it was clearly not an actual call to arms.

Meanwhile, you agreed with TRTL the God Hates Fags bunch are nutters.

So your argument with TRTL is all about interpretation of real events. He didn't get sucked in to a hoax, like PALE and individual.

Ergo, your analogy does not stand.

The end.