I continue to be troubled by the situation of a teenage girl who usually serves me in a video shop.

She is a happy, reasonably attractive kid with nice figure. Yet.. I've been there in the past and noticed many many slashes on her forearm. I asked her about it once, and she said "It's a problem I had once, I'm over it now" ..then.. some weeks later, I saw many new slash marks.

I'm wondering if anyone here has had experience with this, either personally, or.. an acquaintance, or has some knowledge which might be beneficial to store in one's memory bank in respect of this.

If I were to speculate, my guess would be "She has low self esteem.. self loathing, is trying to get attention, has been abused, has psychological issues... or all of the above."

Seeing as there are plenty of hugs going around at the moment, it might be good for all of us to just think of those out there who are struggling with such things, and to be in a mental, emotional, spiritual state ourselves, such that we can somehow pour into such lives, the healing love and comfort they obviously need.

Dear David,

I've not had any personal experience with what you describe, however I have seen interviews on television with some very troubled teens that exhibited signs of the type of self-mutilation that you describe.

These teens were undergoing counselling - and it seemed that it would be a long and very involved process.

It concerns me that this girl has new slashes - that you noticed.

I don't think hugs from strangers would help her. But, she obviously needs help - and fast.

I don't want to tell you what to do David, I can only say that I would go and have a talk (discreetly) to the Manager of the store -
and express my concern.

What do others think?

Or should David just stay out of it altogether?

A sensitive situation.

Its a pity you dont know more about her family history.
Ive come across many people who have come through the pentecostal christian churches who have had a problem attached to the spirit world...e.g. family connected to witchcraft...who have had almost everything from bi-polar conditions to frequently overdosing on medication (to one girl who did slash herself)....who submitted to prayer and were healed.
Perhaps all that could be done at this stage is to pray for her in Jesus' Name and ask The Lord to take charge of her situation.
Im not making any issues here but I am convinced that the more the children and the teenagers open doors through things like Harry Potters witchcraft practices the more emotional and mental problems they are going to get.
Witchcraft is flooding evrywhere through films and books.
The current one at the movies is The Spiderwick Chronicles which has a promo "Their world is closer than you think".
If only parents knew how close that world is, they would never allow their children to watch it.
I believe they show how to open doors to that world in the film.

Mmmm Yeah Gibo, lets try that.

Definitely tragic, but definitely not a thing for a stranger to get involved in. You're opening yourself to stuff you don't even want to contemplate. You don't know her, her family dynamic, her mental history etc. There would be ANY number of reasons she's doing it (doubt if Harry Potter is really an issue but), but I believe self mutilation is all about being able to control and redirect pain (from her POV).

No answers from me, but only advice to the effect of don't get involved. If you as a customer saw it, you can bet your last brass razoo someone with some sort of influence on her has too.

Boazy, self-harming is a classic symptom of various psychological disorders, notably depression. While your intentions are obviously good, the last thing she probably needs is a customer of the shop in which she works making an issue of it.

These days there are many effective strategies for dealing with illnesses such as depression, including medication, counselling, psychotherapy etc. She's very likely to be receiving some kind of professional help for problems already, particularly if her symptoms are so obvious.

Unfortunately, young people with mental illnesses often fall prey to well-meaning but ultimately damaging religious types who convince them that their problems will be solved if they repent and find Jesus, or worse, subject themselves to rituals like exorcism etc.

If she's really self-harming, she needs professional help rather than religious meddling.

Well, as the resident loony (being bi-polar) I vehemently agree with all the other posters who advise you not to butt in. Self-harming is a symptom of another problem. Unless one is qualified to diagnose what that problem or condition is and how to overcome it, any intervention could - and almost certainly would - have tragic results.

A person who is self-harming in a place where it is discernable is not "looking for attention." They are crying out to one specific person and their self-esteem is such that they wouldn't actually consider that ordinary members of the public at large would notice. By mentioning it, or offering "help" this may result in the marks disappearing from the arms ...but reappearing on the thighs or stomach. It could indeed result in stopping this behaviour altogether, true. But then it could lead to the person engaging in some other form of risk-taking behaviour that could be potentially fatal.

Rather just continue to be pleasant to the girl, crack a joke or two and don't give her a hard time over anything. That's all you can, or should, do.

FOXY - I wouldn't think it a good idea to speak to her employer. Mental illness is still a very sensitive issue. Probably the employer has noticed. Indeed, may even have some understanding of the problem. However, if they think that customers are noticing and that some could be made uncomfortable then the poor kid could lose her job. (I once lost the column I had been writing for eight years and was fired from the newspaper the week after I wrote about having a mental illness). At least at the moment she is still functioning. If she lost her job she might stop altogether and completely break down.

ps BD you wrote that she is a "happy" girl. Obviously, if she is self-harming that is the last thing she is. And being good looking - or even downright beautiful - has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Mental illness doesn't just attack ugly people.

Well...this has turned out to be quite a rich source of thought, even in just a short time.

All views are helpful here I think.

The two most opposite are that of Gibo and CJ. and I can agree with both.

CJ.. while you give cautious advice there, and highlight the dangers of simplistic 'spiritual' solutions "repent, Jesus etc" err..yes, I've seen, met, encountered that type, who will by default attribute such behavior to 'demonic' forces. I know of people who have died because of being told 'Just have faith' and don't bother with the doc.....and when they die, "Oh..their faith was not enuf" or.."they had sin in their lives still"...

At the same time CJ... Gibo does have some points. I've seen that side also. While you tend to not embrace the idea of 'spiritually' based psychological problems, I definitely assure you (as would Gibo) they are real. Of course, the problem is in knowing the true source of such problems. Its also possible she is into 'Goth' death loving cult type stuff.

Foxy.. thanx for the suggestion. I would'nt really feel comfortable going to her employer.. he has eyes as well, and I think she might feel that such a move went 'over her head'.. but I appreciate the thought.

In a way.. my bringing the issue to 'here' is a kind of cathartic thing for myself. I know I can't do much for her personally, except as Romany said "crack a joke or two and be pleasant"

To me, the answer to all such problems is a sense of assurance that we are loved, and not by someone who is going to prove unreliable or 2faced. I'm talking here about 'Agape' love.. that of God. "Religious meddling" is the last thing on my mind

Stg..... although you said you had 'no answers'... the point you made about being able to 'control and re-direct pain' is one which did not cross my mind, but that is a very insightful thought.

The tragedy is, if a person has so much pain that they feel so desperate as to 're-direct' it in that way to obtain a sense of control and indpendance... sheesh.. how bad must be the pain?

For those who know the Lord.. you know what I'm going to say.. pray.. bring her before the Lord ..lift her up in your own quiet place to Him who loves more than all.

cheers.

Yes stay out of it in this case do not talk to her boss please!
It must be known to them and just maybe the fact she is working there is part of a help plan.
She could be sacked if the boss thinks she is hurting custom, then? she could get far worse without a job.

Dear David,

I've had a re-think - thanks to the other posters. They're right.
Don't get involved. It didn't occur to me that she'd lose her job.
As Romany pointed out - its probably her 'life-line.'

So yes - stay out of it.

Woah...woah.. *rewind* :) this was not about 'me' doing something....

it was a story of a young person, and raises the question 'why'......

do people harm themselves?

I've benefited wonderfully from some of the responses.. the "don't intervene" ones are not scratching where I'm itching.. I'm not about to 'intervene'... I simply try to communicate love and encouragement to people in need by mannerisms... facial expression..jokes..

I want to underline again that the most important thing all of us can ever experience is genuine selfless love.

This is what was expressed by the 'dirty gentile'(to the Jewish mind) Samaritan to the Jew who had been bludgeoned and left for dead by robbers. He picked up the victim.. gave him safe accomodation and left it open ended "If any more expense is required, charge it to my account" We note from this parable, that the Priest passed by in disdain... as did a 'Levite'... only the 'scumbag Samaritan' took the trouble to help...

People sometimes say "Jesus taught nothing the Rabbi's didn't already teach"...well..I disagree, THIS was very radical.. very different.. no Rabbi would have spoken highly of a Samaritan..but Jesus deliberately used this character to challenge the racist/religious stereotypes of the day.

So.. as a separate question 'should we intervene'... and if so, how?
My view is.. to simply show the same love as the Samaritan did... where we can help.. we do. We don't probe into the persons life "Hmm did you not kNOW that this was a dangerous road?! err.. Why did you travel at NIGHT?! umm..didnt ur parents teach you about such things?

etc.. nope.. he was down..and the Samaritan picked him up.
Just 'being there with a sincere cheery smile' can change a persons life.

I used to do this, and believe it or not, I actually consider it a valid alternative therapy. Well certainly better than nothing, and a form of self medication. It does get quite addictive though.

Anyway, I agree with StG.

Whitty,

I still do it on occasion, though I do fight the urge most of the time. And yes, I can understand what you say about it being a "valid self-medicating" option. Sometimes one feels its the only way to take back the power and that at least no-one else is getting hurt.

But when I'm not in that mindset I do fully realise that its not...well...normal behaviour. If you've arrived at a place where you don't do it anymore then maybe, deep down, you may have actually questioned whether or not it really is valid?

For those of you who want to really help someone (and yourselves) I'd advice you to follow your Samaritanian feelings and look this up: http://emotional-freedom-technique.tk
Once you are there scroll down to:"For proof, here is a sampling of our actual cases. They are written for you by everyday citizens, physicians and therapists" Then click on:"you can get started for free." then go to the center box and tick it and fill in your email address and click "email me my package"
You will be delighted about this easy to do technique for yourself and your loved ones (and strangers:-)

Boaz

What Romany said.

And an extra ditto on 'the kid' having a 'nice figure'.

As someone who has also mental health issues, I do not think you approaching her employer would be a helpful thing to do - as Romany pointed out, 'the nice kid' could lose her job.

Just a point in future, Boaz, when you recount your personal experiences, the level of attractiveness of a woman is rarely germane to a story. People self-harm irrespective of their outward appearance. At the very least you could've left out your opinion of her body - detracts from your credibility, which is already in deficit.

Oh, what a surprise, Fractelle popping up and attempting to start a gender war.

If you have mental health issues yourself, I find it curious you feel superior enough to constantly critique my emotional wellbeing on other threads, highlighting the 'issues' I supposedly have, no matter how carefully worded you are forced to be by the moderator.

Having just defended Whitty against Fractelle in another thread, I'm now vice versing.

It was Boazy who introduced the idea that the girl's figure had a bearing on the story. To be honest, I found it creepy too. It's why I didn't post. I'm sure that may be a libelous, horrible, offensive, feministy thing to say, but nevertheless it's true. It creeped me out.

The second reason I didn't post was that Whitty and Romany posted with real empathy and understanding of the issue. I really appreciated you both discussing your own experiences. Rather brave, I would have thought.

Hmmm most interesting. Whitty and Romany...thanx for taking the thread at face value and seeking to contribute positively. Glad you are not immersed in cynicism and morbidity as some appear to be. I never would have thought that some of 'us' here actually engaged in such activity like self harm.. the reasons behind it from Whitty are quite enlightening. Please feel free to help us understand you more, and why 'that' means of self expression was chosen by you. (Whitty has mentioned about taking control etc)

Vanilla and Fractelle.. the 'creepiness' is in your own minds. Being women you possibly don't realize how a man thinks.. and this is the 'bearing' it has to a male mind (mine anyway) "If she is reasonably attractive and has a happy disposition.. it is reasonable to assume she might be popular, hence.. her self esteem should be high, not low so why is she harming herself?" Which of course is a lead-in to "Is she being abused, does she have mental health issues..etc etc"

If you 2 don't 'get' that.. then please take your morbid creepy judgementalism somewhere else, because until you spoke up, this thread was going along very well with all parties seeking to build up...rather than tear down. So, I'll probably ignore all subsequent 'contributions' (if they can be called that) from you two on this thread. (unless you actually try to contribute something worthwhile)

A smile can save a life, absolutely. It's a horrific thing to see and incrdibly difficult not to reach out and attempt to do something, even something small. I can't really add anymore than I already have apart from saying don't treat her any different than you if you didn't know. People who are....in a sensitive 'place'.....have some sort of psychic ability to pick up on vibes, and it's usually detrimental becuase they get that from all directions. They want to be left alone. It'll make her uncomfortable if you make her aware of it again.

My missus sits in uncomfortable emotional places occasionally due to various things. People trying to comfort come across as condescending and really they no idea what's going on, or why. It's best left to those who DO have an idea to deal with it. All you're seeing is a picture on the cover of a book.

I got what you meant about the figure and how she looked comment David. But things aren't always as shallow as the media make out what young girls issues are about. Who knows what triggered her 'cutting'. It could be anything from being raped, to mental illness, to severe physical or mental abuse, she may seen someone murdered, or she may 'just' have some emo trend thing going on....it might any mixture of the above....no one may know.

Hi BD,
I really feel for the girl and the people who love her. I’ve wanted to reply earlier but you had so many sensible responses already but the girl keeps coming up in my mind during the day. I can imagine that this is on your mind as well.

I agree with StG that it would be very hard to speculate ‘why’ she does this.

There was a girl at my High School who self-mutilated. Once, she cut her wrists too deeply and ended up in hospital. She didn’t talk about it much but I remember she said that she didn’t know why she did it, just that she had an uncontrollable urge to harm herself.

She received help after that scare and I remember that she learned to control the urge by inflicting discomfort in a harmless way, e.g. when she felt a strong urge to cut herself she had a cold shower instead until the urge passed.
When she was away from home and not able to have a shower, she wore an elastic band around her wrist and snapped until the episode passed.

thanx so much Celivia.. ur right.. there have been a goodly number of sensible responses and perspectives thus far.

Stg, again, though thinking you have little to offer, came up with a valuable insight in how to treat such people.

"Dont' treat the person differently than if you did not know"...

now this creates a mild dilemna. I agree completely that to focus on the 'symptom'.. (any kind of symptom for any type of weird behavior) is to miss the mark. "Wise as serpents, harmless as doves" as the Biblical saying goes. But if such a person is actually 'wanting' to be noticed? aah..thats the difficult choice. To ignore could be the same as noticing.

Jesus encountered many types of people.. and while He did not go out of his way specifically to find them, they did come to him. The woman with a chronic hemmoerage is one. She fought her way through the crowd, just to touch His garment..and was healed. Oh that my wind cheater had that impact!

In this case, I wonder though.. is she looking for someone to notice?
If I was doing drugs, and injecting..I'd hardly display the line of puncture marks for all customers to see where I worked in retail.
This dear girl has often had her sleeve rolled up.. and the marks are VERY visible...there is a long line of cut marks side by side.. probably 20 at least she must be aware of this.. .. 'cry for help' ? Who knows.

"Intervention" is very delicate, and no ones business in the normal scheme of things. As I've said above. the best approach in my view is simply to communicate security and love and understanding by one's demenour.
Perhaps with the added non verbal post script. ."I'm here if you need to talk to someone".

Boaz - did you actually read what I said? (and btw, it was I, not Whitty who mentioned the power thing)

If she is doing it where it can be seen then there is someone very specific whom she wants to "show" to. Its not you, nor I nor Joe public. In a state like that other people don't impinge much on one's consciousness. Strange as it may seem, she probably doesn't take into account that other people take any notice. I'm disturbed that you mentioned it to her at all, as you said you had done in your first post.

You also said you were surprised that "one of us" engaged in this behaviour? When I would go to talk at schools/businesses I would count classroom audiences off by fours. Then I would ask all the number 1's to stand up. They represent all the people in Australia who will, at some time in their lives, suffer either from a chronic or episodic period of mental dis-ease (i.e. chronic depression). Then number 2s stand up. They represent the parent, spouse or sibling of that person who will thus be involved. Number 3 s stand up to represent the best friend or confident of the person. By the time the number 4's - who represent the classmates, employees, employers, customers etc stand up the entire room is standing.

Thats how many people in Australia will be affected by mental illness in some way in their lives. We have to do so responsibly.

Romany

I concur with your points, I performed my own version of self-mutilation by escaping from depression through blocking it with legal and illegal substances, I am lucky to have come through it. Many people are not so fortunate.

What Boaz has revealed with his latest discussion thread is just how gauche he really is: assuming that women don't know what men are thinking about them. No doubt this young woman has already interpreted his gaze and she is already having enough problems without some 60-plus male foisting his attention (no matter how well-intended) on her and her life. While self-mutilation screams 'look at me', this doesn't mean just anyone. Who the people she truly wants attention from are likely to be those in her personal life - not strangers.

BTW Boaz, most men may think many a thought about a woman's body, but most men have the grace and courtesy to keep it to themselves.

Fractelle:- to be fair to DB, perhaps in this instance he was actually illustrating a common misconception?

If someone who is hugely obese, or suffering from terrible acne, or is in some way handicapped, presents with a mental condition most people think they can understand. But when mental illness doesn't come wrapped in a damaged outer package there is still a large sector of the community that cannot see (literally) any validation for the damaged inner package.

But I am unsure if BD understands completely yet: he is still thinking about "people like that". Even though he was shocked to discover people on this thread who have been there, done that, and decided the t.shirt doesn't fit, he has yet to fully realise, I think, that "people like that" are actually "people like us."

I used to self mutilate. I cant honestly say i am 'over it' as i dont think u can ever be totally over it. Its been 2yrs now since i last cut myself, some say i am 'well' now, but there are still days when i am drawn to the powerful lure of cutting myself. But i dont. So far anyway.
I think that the girl in the store needs a lot of help, compassion & support. I wouldnt make an issue of seeing new cuts on her arm. A customer did that to me one day & i felt so humiliated & embarrassed even though i just seemed to brush it off to the customer.
As to the "WHY" of self mutilation - for me it was an overwhelming urge, it helped release some emotional pain & sometimes - it just got me some attention which i craved for some reason, but mostly it was a release of pain.

Chillisox

I don't know what else to say you except thank you. I think your post has been the most important contribution to this thread.

For all my misgivings about Boaz, I think he will take note of your straight forward honesty.

Good_grief Fractelle... you are reading soooo much.. into this thread about 'me'...its almost unbelievable. This is about 'people who self harm' for crying out loud.

I've never come across this before until now..and I'm stumbling my way through it like everyone else.

When I saw it the first time..I didn't have a clue that she was doing it to herself..I thought it was writing.. "did you run out of paper" kind of thing.. then she told me what it was..and I realized. She told me 'I'm over it now'..so I simply put it out of my mind..then when I saw new cuts.. I said zippo about it.. nothing.. zero... I immediately realized that she is still having some kind of issue.. and the best approach is NOT to highlight it.. and since then I've not.

ROMANY...thanx for that, yes.. ur pretty much on the right track there regarding my input.

CHILLISOX.. thanx specially to you for what you shared.
Key words "Emotional pain" .. and what's the answer to that ? clearly its opposite. "Emotional healing"..which comes from genuine love.
Probably the most depressing experience in life, is to long for someone to love you..and not finding them.. or him or her.. such as family, friend, etc.
The great danger in such situations in my view is when we allow our situation to make us overly introspective such that we become socially repulsive..which worsens the original problem.

If I was going to attempt to give advice to anyone in such a situation... it would be this. TRY no matter how much you think it can't happen... to develop a level of social attractiveness, by realizing that people are not drawn to 'sad sacks' (harsh fact of life) and then, get involved in SOMEthing.. which has people in it..
Gym.. Toastmasters... some kind of social group..but DON'T whatever you do, be waiting for someone to ask 'You look a bit down.. whats wrong'?..and then pour out a life story of misery'....
Just be genuine, and try to put on a happy face. Think about others more than self, it may help.

David,

Humans are mercurial beings: sometimes on top of the world, on others sad, fed up, lonely. These states can last for hours, days, or even far longer. Its the way normal human beings fluctuate. When feeling fed up a walk on the beach or a vigorous game of squash can do wonders. If down periods last longer than usual then joining in with others and taking our mind off our problems helps enormously.

But people with mental illnesses are NOT in what is recognised as a 'normal' state of being. Mental illness is another state of being entirely. Such people are not in control.

Can you even begin to imagine what its like not to have control over your mind? You don't have the option of "developing a level of social attractiveness". You hear words coming out of your mouth that seem to have bypassed your brain completely. You suddenly "come to" in the middle of an action with no idea of when or why it was initiated. You can't remember what you did a day, a minute, an hour ago.

"The great danger in such situations in my view is when we allow our situation to make us overly introspective..."

We do NOT take a decision to become self-absorbed. Our perceptions are controlled by a malfunctioning engine part: a mind we don't know. There is no reality other than what this alien mind constructs and we have as much control over it as one would a runaway train.

In the aware moments we know perfectly well "that people are not drawn to 'sad sacks'" and that this is indeed a "(harsh fact of life)" so we KNOW we are total failures as human beings because we have no control our sad sack-ness. Why would we therefore want to be with other people when we KNOW they will hate us or reject us or think we are other?

"If I was going to attempt to give advice to anyone in such a situation..."

Don't. Ever. "Attempt". It.

Boazy, while I have no doubt that your motivations are subjectively 'good', you really don't have a clue about this stuff, do you? However, it is to your credit that you seem to be seeking other perspectives.

Having said that, I'm with Romany:

<< "If I was going to attempt to give advice to anyone in such a situation..."

Don't. Ever. "Attempt". It. >>

Romany, thank you for your sharing.

In my place of work I come into contact a lot with young people with mental illness. We have children's and young adults' psych units.

The emotional pain that these kids have is enormous. Unfortunately many also come from very difficult and harrowing childhood backgrounds.

Boazy, with any kind of illness or difficulty, whether mental or physical, it comes across as grossly condescending, negating really of the validity of that person's experience, when somebody who wouldn't know what it is like think they can help.

Other than that. This is timely to think of how we treat our children and have been for a long time. The extent of child abuse that has been exposed in SA is not unique to that state.

'You'll be right. Just buck up. Think of how bad some other people have it' is not helpful, but painful and alienating.

You help by being a normal, courteous customer who expects the same service from her as you would from some one else. By treating her the same as the other staff at the store.

It is sad that 'feminist' issues, Islam issues and abortion issues can take up pages and pages on OLO threads, but issues on how we treat our children barely goes past 3 pages

Team

One point I wish to clarify... my last post was not directed toward people with 'mental illness'... and I'd appreciate if people who are ripping into me about that would kindly come down a couple of steps from their pulpits :).

What I was targeting in the last post, was more the condition of depression, brought about purely by life circumstances..not due to mental illness.

Romany.. that was helpful.. your description of things 'bypassing the brain'... I've encountered a lady with Schitzophrenia..and a bloke as well.. the lady committed suicide eventually, (a friends wife).. the bloke.. lost track of him many decades ago.

So.. RE-stating my 'advice'.. which I believe is entirely valid for people who are not suffering a medical condition of mental illness.

CJ.. you love to jump in when you think you can score a 'BAD BD' point :).. if you folks who berated me about my last post looked a tad closer.. I was connecting my 'advice' to Chillisox post/situation. He/she spoke of 'emotional pain' causing depression/self harm.
We all (with or without mental illness) experience emotional pain.
The important thing is not to allow that non medical related pain to dominate our whole persona.

Sometimes...(as it was for me once) we need someone to enter our lives and be an instrument of healing. I recall when my dad died,(my early 20s) mum having passed away earlier.. me an only child.. empty house..
rather like a social shag on a rock...disconnected from social relationships due to transfer to Melb from Sydney (RAAF)and contemplating my future.. seemed pretty grey and overcast. Then, a bloke I knew from where I was studying invited me to his place for Christmas.
How that changed things. It was just what I needed. Now they are like family.. to this day.

The only thing we can do for people with MI is love them in all their 'moments', both good and bad.

DB,
at the risk of being considered to be "ripping in" to you, I need to try to clear this up. I need to expand a little on Chillisox' post and your understanding of it.

Yes, emotional pain and the way it is handled individually can lead to depression. Unarguable. Whether or not that escalates into clinical depression - which is considered a mental illness - also depends upon different factors i.e. the individuals themselves, their circumstances, the method of coping.

But chronic mental illness and temporary mental illness are different sides of the same coin.

A chronic mental illness has a physical cause: i.e. certain synapses in the brain are actually absent, or faulty. Certain parts of the brain can be damaged, or absent. A brain-scan can actually pinpoint these deficiences or damages. You can SEE them.

We are incapable of knowing, when we meet people on a casual basis, which type of mental illness they suffer from. Therefore it is not possible for us to be able to help everyone in the same way. Or at all, sometimes.

Being kind, being loving, being available, not causing anger or angst or fear or worry through our words and deeds - these are the things which help people of every sort and in every situation. Gratutious advice does not

Just to clear a couple of things up and maybe add some more info for you.
I am female, married, 3 kids ages 15, 12, 8.
I have been diagnosed with the following over the last 16 years: mild depression, prenatal depression, post natal depression, major clinical depression, bipolar, borderline personality disorder. I have been on Cipramil, Zoloft, Efexor, Stilnox, Valium, Lithium, Largactil, Luvox, Prozac to name but a few. I am still on some of these. I have had counselling, therapy, group therapy, seen psychiatrists, psychologists, mothers groups, been admitted to various psych hospitals, high dependancy units. I have overdosed so many times i cant remember, cut myself & had so many stitches i cant count, yelled, screamed at & hit my poor husband. I have cried more tears than i thought possible. I have missed out on years with my children because i simply cannon remember. I wouldnt wish this on my worst ememy.

The reason: unknown. Contributing factors: family life? forced to give my baby up for adoption at birth? maybe. who knows. All i know was that one day i couldnt stand to be alive & the emotional pain from all of this was unbearable. so i cut, od'd, & whatever else i could do to "take the pain away"

Chilli...I can understand that.. as you describe it. The most frustrating thing must be not knowing where it's coming from.

Romany..no, ur not ripping into me there, but I still wish to uphold that advice.. or.. simply call it words of encouragment if it makes them sound better.. the point I'm trying to make... is that there is a point, where people can become a 'sponge' for love, care, attention etc.. and they can see this as normal.. without actually trying to give back or to share something positive with others.

Part of the cause of ordinary depression has to be a kind of morbid self focus.. "Why is this happening to 'me'".... and then they can dwell on it.. and that produces social consequences..which exacerbates the problem.. and so on.

It's that cycle of self inflicted worsening that I'm addressing, and I believe it is so very easy to fall into.

So please don't call it 'gratuitous' advice..its very sincerely meant and it does 'work'. (maybe not for all but for some)

A friend of mine had depression once (bought on by an event as opposed to a physical cause) and I remember at the time feeling at a loss on how to help her. Up to that moment I had not had anyone near and dear to me in that situation so did not know how to react. Like all friends you want to 'fix' the problem but sometimes there is no 'fix' or easy solution.

So, I simply asked her what can I do or not do to make things better? And she told me and I did it - whether it was to help clean her house, cook a meal, distract her from her pain by 'making' her go places with me and most of all provide support and companionship without judgement. Thankfully her illness was short-term and she is fine now.

Advice is probably best left to the professionals or those with experience in this arena. Sometimes well meaning advice can be harmful and might exacerbate the condition if it is offered with unintentional but uninformed judgements and beliefs about mental illness.

Boaz

You started this thread to assist you with something that was troubling you.

Well you have received some of the most consistent well thought through advice I have ever seen on OLO - a consensus in fact.

Yet you still seem to be arguing for becoming personally involved in this girl's private life.

If you really care about her, you will take the superb advice that has been offered and treat her with the kindness and respect that any retail employee has a right to receive. Be a good customer, polite, courteous and warm without being intrusive.

That way she will know that not all the world is out to take something from her or is simply indifferent to her, that her work is worth something to her customers.

Fractelle... I 'seem'to be arguing for getting involved?
sorry.. I've not been arguing that at all.

I've been engaging the discussion on various points.. and as a side issue, I seek to contribute to the THREAD..... by suggesting that those with non medical reasons for depression.. just 'life is a bitch' kind of reasons.. should seek to respond to it in a positive outgoing way.

That little chunk of advice was not me proposing how I'd relate to the person about whom I began the thread, but me offering one view on how ANY of us can drag ourselves out of a downward spiral which can occur at any time given enough knocks in life. People can take it..or leave it. Makes no difference to me, except that if I met one of you and you could have pulled yourself out, but didn't.. it would not be a very glowing social encounter eh.

You're quite right.. the general consensus of the contributors is quite sound in my view also.

I think your reading too much between the lines Fractelle.