A fair amount of criticism of Islam stems from the fact that moderate muslims appear to be hesitant in their denunciation of radical elements of the religion.

I suppose this is fair enough. I am curious to see however, how Christians react to these three movements.

I have a hypothetical situation for the resident Christians on these boards, who frequently criticise Islam - if these three scenarios are indeed true, will you renounce and actively condemn these Christian movements?

I suppose you can argue that these articles aren't a fair representation - I suppose in our free society, questioning a media portrayal is fair enough. But assuming these are accurate accounts, then would you reject these groups?

Firstly, we have 'Mercy Ministries.'

This Fairfax piece outlines their actions.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/bible-used-to-treat-mental-illness/2008/03/16/1205602228237.html

They tell women with eating disorders and anxiety issues, that their problems are the work of demonic possession. They have also been asked to sign contracts saying they won't communicate with certain friends - a calling card of cult movements.
Mercy Ministries are linked to hillsong, and the Gloria Jeans coffee houses. On reading this article, I know I for one, will not be buying any coffee from Gloria Jeans.

Secondly, we have the Catch the Fire ministries - who have actively asked people to tear down mosques.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/pms-message-to-controversial-sect/2007/01/18/1169095914473.html

Do the Christian residents here, oppose the notion that mosques should be torn down?

Thirdly, we have the 'Westboro' church. In the wake of the death of Heath Ledger, they picketed his funeral and said he was going to hell for appearing in the film, brokeback mountain.
I think their homepage - godhatesfags.com really says it all about Westboro.

Do our resident christians oppose these three groups?
After all, with the call for muslims to do the same, it seems only fair that the same pressure be applied to Christians to keep their faith reasonable, and free of violent or destructive fringe movements.

TRTL

There is a lot that does not make sense about the news articles you have highlighted. I refuse to denounce Mercy ministries because I know they have helped many young women in tragic situations. The newspapers claim that 'Only careful psychological and psychiatric care over several years brought them back from the edge.' I know a number of people who have suicided after long stints with psychologist and mental health experts. Do we denounce all psychology also? Painting the girl as being independent young women, and coming out broken and suicidal is totally misleading. If the girl had it together she would not have signed up for ministry with this organisation. The girls going to these ministries are normally desperate and have been given up by the mainstream in society. Many people give of their free time and money to help these people. You comparing this to a belief in the 'religion of peace' is deceitful and misleading.

I refuse to denounce 'Catch the Fire Ministries' because you know as well as anyone that they never called for mosques to be physically torn down. That is an out and out misrepresentation of what was said. Read the article and you will find the context of tearing down was in prayer. Even you are not so stupid as to believe they were calling for physical violence.

I have no problem denouncing your third group who show hate towards homosexuals and others they believe are sinners. They do not represent any part of Christ as far as I'm concerned.

You seem to either of swallowed the headlines or have been deliberately misleading when reporting on the first two articles. I actually join with you in denouncing the Westboro Baptist who show no compassion and are full of self righteousness.

CHRISTIAN_SHAMANISM ?

1/ MERCY MINISTRIES. Any 'ministry' involving young people in conflict, is prone/vulnerable to negative reports in the media.
What I have great trouble with, is the idea of 'It's Satan' when in reality it is simply 'us' with an unrepentant heart. Or..it might well be some kind of psychological disorder such as Schitzophrenia.

Attributing habitual this or that to 'demonic posession' is to my understanding unbiblical and dangerous. It is one thing to speak about temptation and giving in to the desires of the flesh, it is entirely another to claim that this is 'because' of demonic posession. One would need to know what the terminology being used by Mercy is. Do they refer to Satanic 'influence' on a life, or.. 'posession'?

What I condemn is "You were not healed because there is sin in your life" or.. "because you didn't believe hard enough". Even though in both cases there is some scriptural support which 'might' apply. Only God and the individual knows. But others making external pronouncements is living very very dangerously and borders on a spiritual arrogance of the highest order.

Having cut and dried spiritual solutions which are treatable by a 'formula', heads in the direction of shamanism rather than Biblical truth. The Biblical pattern is .. if it's sin.. it must be repented of. Sickness may or may not be healed. Some are (like me) some arn't.
Look for it only as a 'sign' of the kingdom.

Signing over benefits? hmmm that sounds very dodgy to me. Details..details..details..?

2/ CATCH THE FIRE. :) An easy one. "Tearing down of strongholds" is a verse from 2nd Corinthians.. that secularists latch onto this does not surprise me :) No..I won't condemn it because the verse is preceded by a statement saying it is NOT "physical" tearing down. "The weapons of our warfare are NOT....carnal(earthly/human/phyisical)" i.e.. it is talking about spiritual tearing down, as people come out of darkness into faith.

3/ PHELPS AND WESTBORO CHURCH.. yes.. on this one I can confidently say they deserve the utmost condemnation, based on publically verifiable UNbiblical behavior and statements.

Religion isn't responsible for the actions of the people. The people are.

I get tired of people blaming a faith for the actions of the faithful. Just becasue someone does an action in the name of religion, that doesn't mean their God condones it, nor the faith teach it. People have used others blind following of "something better than this reality" to suit their personal agendas. IT's been going on for centuries, and not once is the faith itself to blame.

It's like blaming democracy for the invasion of Iraq.

Good points Stg.

THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE......between Islam and Christianity, if one wants to make a 'comparative religion' approach.

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE against SPOUSEs... is ABSOLUTELY condemned in the Bible, yet it is clearly and unambiguously permitted in the Quran (4:34)

SEXUAL ABUSE of captive women is permitted, exemplified (in Mohammad and his closest disciples) and codified in the Quran. (23:5-6)

SEXUAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN is specifically permitted in the Quran (65:4)
(they call it 'marriage'..to pre-pubescent children)

WAR against non Muslims is not 'hinted'at..it is COMMANDED. 9:29

VILIFICATION OF JEWS and CHRISTIANS is not hinted at..it is specifically and unambiguously AFFIRMED (9:30)

TRTL.. you have thrown out the challenge to us, now I throw it back on you.

CAN you....join with me.... in condemning "Islam" for these outrages?

If you cannot, it means the following: (one or more or all)

1/ You feel that such practices are not 'bad'.
2/ You feel the verses mentioned are 'not correctly interpreted'.
3/ You are just fishing for some reason to 'bash' Christians :)

On point 2, I'd so love for some brave soul to venture onto the quicksand of "No, it doesn't mean that".. or.. the quagmire of "You are being selective and its out of context".....

Yep.. that would totally make my day, because no one as yet, has done anything other than counter such things with 'Christians are bad/ur a right wing nutter' kind of non-arguments.

Its time we faced facts in life, there is 'light' and there is darkness. I prefer to see where I'm a goin.

Boazy, TurnRightThenLeft's challenge was not calling for a general condemnation of christianity but rather against three groups perceived to be taking their faiths to an extreme. There is plenty in the bible which could be cherry in the way you have cherry picked from the koran(and we've all been there often enough before that I hope I don't need to repeat again).

I and most other others who routinely oppose your anti-muslim campaign will happily condem movements within Islam that act on the nasty parts of the koran (or add their own nasty bits).

Just as I condem those christains who promote homophobia or those who bomb abortion clinics I condem muslims who act against others because they disagree with our choices. Just as I condem those christains who suggest the rest of us deserve an eternity of suffering for not being christain I condem muslims who want to make war on non-muslims.

R0bert