Individuals are going to do whatever they are going to do, and if they blame their faith for their actions, it is no reflection on the faith.

What worries me more is the structure of religious institutions that put themselves up as an authority, and are seen as such by many, and condone or cover up paedophilia or incite terrorist acts. I think a good way of stopping that may be to withdraw tax relief. That would soon make them self regulate their Priests and Imams.

Though this self regulation seems to have started, with the Vatican deciding obscene riches is a mortal sin. Looks like a lot of real estate and jewellery and art and such is about to be sold...

Any Christian who believes in demons as beings independent of one's own psyche is not Christian but polytheistic in their beliefs. Mercy Ministries is not biblical in their faith, but rather hold an ancient Roman secretism view of human behaviour. In Biblical Christianity all belief in demons are dismissed as pagan ideas, as we do not believe the spirits of the evil dead can independently affect the living. We uphold there is but one God and the person alone are is affected by their sin and live in oppostion to God.

From What I hear of Mercy Ministries they are not orthodox but rather believe in pagan gods [demons].

Catch the Fire Ministries might be radical but the verse quoted does not apply in any physical sense. I agree with B_D.

Anyone who paractises violence and incites acts of hatred is not a follower of Christ. He protected adulterers against stoning and mixed with sinners.

TurnRightThenLeft,

I suspect that moderate Muslims do get a bad rap. However your approach doesn’t seem to achieve anything meaningful. You gave 3 examples of Christian groups apparently acting badly and asked Christians in here if they would condemn them.

The third example clearly showed people claiming to be Christian being offensive. They didn’t kill large groups of people like suicide bombers but their actions were cruel, unChristian, and offensive. The Christian respondents unflinchingly condemned them. That is the complete opposite of your apparent theory that moderate Christians would emulate moderate Muslims who apparently fail to criticize offensive extremism.

The second example was clearly incorrect. Catch the Fire Ministries are calling for people to pray not asking people to vandalise Mosques. Thus I presume you would agree it doesn’t apply.

The first example was Mercy Ministries. After all the discussion they sound potentially quirky and culty but we don’t know much more. You said:

“If I were to adopt the same tactics you and others use to attack Islam, I'd be saying that you secretly support the tricking of young women into giving up their centrelink payments, as well as contracts that cut them off from friends.”

If Christians are critical of moderate Muslims for not condemning things like the slaughter of Christians in East Timor or the suicide bombers in Israel can you reasonably compare that with failing to condemn minor quirky actions by Christians? Isn’t there a serious problem with proportionality?

Have you tested atheists for their reaction to minor quirky atheist groups to see if they immediately condemn them? Then why judge Christians like that?

Without something reasonably proportionate it is difficult to believe the comparison is meaningful. If my guess is incorrect and slaughter of Christians in East Timor or suicide bombers in Israel is not the offensive behaviour and it is instead quirky fanatical Muslim behaviour then please correct me. Otherwise, whether or not you have a good cause, when Christians leap in and condemn the ugliness of the Phelps it hardly supports your argument irrespective of Christian reaction to minor quirky Christians’ behaviours.

TLTR “Fair enough Col - I agree. But should Christians make the same efforts?”

Of course, my comment was non-denominational

“URGENT CORRECTION: "Doing IT in the bath."

I couldn't see the keys......
Posted by Ginx, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 11:53:57 AM”

Yep, “not seeing the keys”, a salutary warning of happens when you do IT in the bath.

I see Jinx and Philo are no believers in demon powers.
My knowledge is different.
Im not an expert... but I cant be too many years off it.
Ive been in warfare with evil spirits so many times.
Ive had them smother me in my sleep and been bitten by them.
Ive been in christian churches, not pansy churches with dainty ways when it comes to Christ, but truly alive in The Holy Spirit churches, where hands- were- layed on by committed pastors and elders and the demons screamed as they came out of troubled people.
Ive spoken to so many christians who have knowledge of them I couldnt name them all.
The best work the christian exorcists do today is not in the generally unbelieving western nations but in third world countries where the demon powers control life in whole villages.
The stories that come back are so amazing.
I think anyone who has no knowledge of evil spirits is so unenlightened as to be deceived as to what is really going on, on earth. Juniors in life. Babies in the crib. Untaught children. Get yourself down to a good christian bookshop and get some testimonies on evil spirits. Find out for yourself. Then talk about demons with a more ROUNDED KNOWLEDGE!
It would be a quiet world, if it wasnt for satan stirring up folks to kill each other.
Your knowledge of how good people relate to each other should tell you, very clearly, there are dark forces on the earth apart from men.

Gibo,
To the pagan mind who believe in demons [gods] they are real, especially in cultures based in spirit superstitions. Of which was the mixed culture of Jesus day, and Jesus practised exorcism as did the monotheistic Judaists. As was baptism it was a physical demonstration to the person held captive in their superstitious mind or by their sin that they are now totally free.

Demons are real to the superstitious mind who fail to recognise there is but one God who in all and in control of all things other than the rebellious heart and mind of man - the enemy of God who needs reconciliation. Christians in the early Church were put to death for atheism by the state because they refused to believe in the reality of demons.

Churches that teach demonology are not Christian but teach paganism superstition.