Rehctub,I agree with most of your opinions,but don't forget that this site is frequented by those who are not involved in small business/self employed.Most who post on this site are employed by the Govt and they expect the real world to be an extention of their childhood.If mum or dad cannot provide,therefore the state must be a surrogate parent,hence the need for higher taxes.

rehctub I hope you do not fall into the trap of not reading each post fully.
I find you an interesting person and your threads too, but the middle ground you seek is called understanding.
arjay wrongly infers public servants haunt these pages , search my post history, you will find I once worked for a money wasting government group , and have no faith in such, yet I am on the opposite site of Ajay's fence.
Workchoices may not have intruded on your business it did in most.
That holiday loading so you will understand was mostly traded away long before workchoices in most industry's.
Firms even public owned ones came to the EBA table with removing it on the wish list.
It was traded of for a small wage rise , that rise was paid all hours worked including overtime.
It was paid on holidays and superannuation, both sides liked it, remember it was the bosses wish.
Workchoices had minimum effect , usually none on state government public service jobs so why arjay posted that is beyond me it too is not related to the subject.
You say in a post above bad bosses give every one a bad name, just not true, some great bosses far more than you think refused to use workchoices , stayed with negotiated deals and those bosses are still about.
Such bosses often believe me often ring unions and ask us to come to jobs we did not know existed to give advice about wages.

Arjay: "Most who post on this site are employed by the Govt..."

How do you know this, Arjay? I'm a small business owner who employs people, and I thought 'work choices' was a crock from the time the Rodent government rammed the legislation through.

'Work choices' failed and was rejected by the electorate simply because it was an ideologically driven attack on workers, conducted on behalf of big business by their puppet regime. Fortunately and inevitably, it backfired on them once the reality of 'worse choices' to individual workers outweighed the Rodent's rhetoric.

Good riddance to the Howard regime and 'work choices'.

Apart for two posts that while not related to the threads subject seemed to talk of personal pain and anger the thread did well.
Pointless to again say why divert threads but I think it ended well C J Morgan said it all.
My life has not stood still I too was once an employer a long time ago.
5 full time workers and 4 self employed contractors all got well paid none ever left.
Insults often talk of an inner feeling of defeat from the person who posts them, but to claim we are all public servants?
Thanks rehctub a good thread.

Yes I agree, a well debated post and it is obvious that work choices could have and should have been better structured.

Interesting though is that little is said about sporting people and their respective pays.

Player 1 gets $500K per season while player 2 can't make first grade, can't find a manager and ends up on the scrap heap.

Nothing to do with work choices but is this unfair because player 2 didn't have a manager (union boss) to bat for him/her or is it a simple case of 'horses for courses'?

Food for thought hey!

It is indeed of subject rehctub but most sports men with any promise have managers haunting them to sign up.
And unions only represent one in 5 workers.
However last if Rudd keeps his promises, I think he will, we will have a national IR system that all can live with in a few years.
I offer this thought, if the survivors of Howard's lemming like last term could go back to day one of workchoices it would have been killed at birth.
Thanks for the thread well done.